Stephen Brewster: 0:03

so when I was in college, I was in college for a completely different major. Then I switched to broadcasting so that I could be around music really and then, um, uh, then I met our mutual friend, jay king.

Stephen Brewster: 0:15

Yeah, he was the road manager for this band and he and I became friends because they came and did a concert at our college and I interviewed them. I had the only black music show on the college radio station, it was like four hours on Monday nights. So I interviewed them the band's name was Out of Eden Interviewed them, jay and I became friends and then I just started devouring. It was really like P Diddy. I was like, oh, this dude has no talent but he's able to be in the music business. I have no talent. Maybe I can be in the music business.

Chris Estes: 0:57

Welcome to the Power of Songs podcast, where we explore the powerful connections songs have throughout the journey of life. Steve Brewster, you are the doppelganger in my life, and vice versa. Yeah, it's true, it's true. We have both been mistaken for each other so many times. It's crazy, it's wild, even by our own families. Yeah, that's. The crazy thing is when your own family does that. Right, right man, excited to have you on this podcast too.

Chris Estes: 1:25

Thanks for taking time we're outside, uh, on this beautiful patio, at this undisclosed location in franklin we cannot let people know where we're at it's a private workspace. Yeah, um, so if you hear birds and stuff chirping, it's uh, it's natural springish. Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, dude. So this is gonna be fun because, one, you love music. We've done music together at Integrity Music way back in the day, when we had some fun stuff to work on there.

Stephen Brewster: 1:52

Right.

Chris Estes: 1:52

And still doing it. You're doing a lot of different stuff which I'm sure we'll get into, but the podcast is the Power of Songs and the reason I wanted to do it was because everybody who works in music, as we do, kind of has that love relationship with music, especially if you stay in the industry. It's like you have to love it to put up with what you put up with and do what you do and I like to go back to what I usually find is through all the guests and myself is there's an early age. There's a point in your early life sometimes as a teenager, sometimes it's earlier than that where you're just like that's the moment when it's like man.

Chris Estes: 2:32

that's the thing that brought me into it, and typically it's a song that does that. You're special in the way that I think you're the first one I've interviewed that you were up in the mission field.

Stephen Brewster: 2:42

Yeah.

Chris Estes: 2:43

So that'd be a different way to experience music. So I usually start with this question If you can remember what was a song or songs that you're like, oh, I'm in love with music. They pulled you in.

Stephen Brewster: 2:53

Yeah, I mean that's easy for me I can go back to the day oh come on, it's like fifth grade. Yeah, Fifth grade. I heard Purple Rain for the first time.

Chris Estes: 3:04

Oh, come on, and I was like. Now, were you on the mission field there?

Stephen Brewster: 3:08

Yeah, I lived in Haiti at the time and so I don't know, the song may have been out for 10 years before I had heard it, but in Haiti I remember I literally. So in Haiti we would have concrete yards, we didn't have grass, so one of my chores was I had to sweep all the concrete and I we didn't have grass, yeah, so one of my chores was I had to sweep the all the concrete and I had, like the local Haitian radio station on and and that song came on and I was like, oh my gosh, this is different and literally to this day, like Prince is probably my favorite artist. Yeah, Ever.

Chris Estes: 3:37

Yeah, the first five seconds of that song just gets you like just even the tone and the vibe of that song. So what just get you like just even the, the tone and the vibe of that song. So what you heard that song like. What was the? Was it like a?

Stephen Brewster: 3:48

top 40 haitian radio station was and they played everything. I mean, I remember like they would play lionel richie, michael jackson, caribbean music yeah, you know, not non-english speaking caribbean music. Um, not much hip-hop, but then they like they would.

Chris Estes: 4:02

It was mostly like r&b and caribbean yeah, yeah and then yeah, so that was what it was. So how did you, from that moment, did you be able to go buy it, or?

Stephen Brewster: 4:11

was it just like you, just whenever it came on the radio. When it came on the radio, was it on? Rotation was it like a yeah, I mean it, would they? I mean I'm sure they probably didn't have a huge collection, yeah, like the library wasn't large, so um, so yeah, I would hear it a lot. And then I don't know, my like, I was probably in seventh grade. I got like a radio that had a tape player on it where I could record it.

Chris Estes: 4:33

Yeah, off the radio, and then once I had it, it was over oh yeah, yeah, for younger listeners there's a cassette tape.

Stephen Brewster: 4:39

Situation with radios?

Chris Estes: 4:40

yes, aka the old boom box, which is kind of retro, which is crazy to believe, but I remember that man, I remember this.

Stephen Brewster: 4:46

What was your?

Chris Estes: 4:47

song Dude. For me it was um, I grew up around music Um my dad listened to, like Bob Seger or something else, so you kind of I think everybody has music around right. Um, my sister was heavily influenced and actually we were in Saudi Arabia when it hit me, so we were there for two years and she was heavily influenced by the British wave of Duran Duran, all the boy band stuff which I listened to which kind of intrigued me. But then it took a turn. For me I think it was probably Def Leppard, pyromania. Yeah, I think that album was, and for us like discovery in saudi arabia was this um bootleg store in downtown riyadh called the 747 shop, so we could go in there and buy cassette tapes and they're super cheap so we could get, uh, we could get a couple of them and I bought that, uh, that album. I think it was death leopard. Then it was quickly like ozzy osbourne, judas priest, iron mate, like it was the whole rock metal.

Stephen Brewster: 5:46

You went the complete opposite side that I went yeah.

Chris Estes: 5:50

Yeah, but I remember Prince dude. So we came back to New Orleans and I remember when that movie came out.

Stephen Brewster: 5:58

Yeah.

Chris Estes: 5:58

Like Purple Rain. And I had a bunch of black friends in New Orleans and they were like let's go downtown, this theater on Canal Street by the French Quarter, it's like let's go see the movie. I was literally the only white guy in that theater but it was killer man, that movie I think that's how I experienced that album was through the movie.

Stephen Brewster: 6:15

Oh that's amazing, yeah, I mean. Yeah, it's a classic. It's interesting, though, because though because Prince like bridged, like rock and roll and yeah like really rock and roll, pop music, rap music, r&b music, yeah, yeah, and so that you know, two people who grew up on completely opposite sides of the musical spectrum, yep, could share that same.

Chris Estes: 6:39

You know, crazy, unintentionally just because of his talent. And I think, even then, like, did you guys get mtv in haiti? No, yeah, no. When did you come?

Stephen Brewster: 6:47

back from haiti. So, uh, I came back in um the eighth grade, a high school. Well, actually, like I went to singapore for a while, but then, yeah, then I came back to the states in in the ninth grade, so that would have been like 1988 yeah, so mtv was like I had.

Chris Estes: 7:03

I had mtv when?

Stephen Brewster: 7:04

had MTV when I was in high school? Yeah, but not before.

Chris Estes: 7:08

I feel like for me, mtv it may have been for you too like that opened up a multi-genre experience, because they had programming that was built around. They had Headbangers Ball, but they also had like Yo.

Stephen Brewster: 7:19

MTV Raps. Yo MTV Raps, like all that.

Chris Estes: 7:20

And MTV Raps like all that, and you know I remember Walk this Way when Aerosmith and Adidas like that, introduced hip hop to me Like that was the moment.

Stephen Brewster: 7:29

Well see, I think, though, like I think kids today are like genre agnostic, right, like my girls, they'll listen to Travis Scott and then they'll listen to Morgan Wallen, and then they'll listen to, like SU, worship or Elevation, yeah Right. And they don't like to them, that's a playlist, yeah Right. But at least for me, when I grew up, it was literally it was like R&B and hip hop and that was it. And so, like I wouldn't even watch Headbangers Ball because I'd be like there ain't going to be no rap music on this, you know. And so, like I think that I think the way people consume songs back then was just different because, like, you kind of lived in your lane, yeah, and it was more like communal.

Stephen Brewster: 8:15

Yeah, like it was a like oh you're, you like the same thing that I like. Okay, now we have something to talk about yeah whereas now it's like we just all like music. Yeah, you know yeah.

Chris Estes: 8:26

Yeah, I think, man, I think you're right. I think it to me, like the late 80s and 90s, was the first genre collaborative you know, scene where that started to, because for me, like NWA was introduced through Guns N' Roses yeah roses. Like I remember seeing axl wear nwa hat and then hearing like easy, and I'm like, oh, this is right, dope, like this is cool yeah yeah, it's wild man.

Chris Estes: 8:49

Um, all right. So the uh, were there other songs, like what? So when you got pulled in with prince for you, was it more like I love music, I want to do music, or was it man I?

Stephen Brewster: 9:01

just like no, I, I, no. I didn't want to do music. I didn't even know what that would have meant. I just loved music. So once I heard that song, I literally was. I always had music on like all the time. I'd have music on in the car, I'd have music on when I was in the shower. It was nonstop. I listened to music all the time, and when I went to college I realized, oh, you could actually go in the music business and there's a business side, because I didn't sing, I didn't play an instrument, I played sports, and so I had to choose one or the other.

Chris Estes: 9:42

And.

Stephen Brewster: 9:42

I was in band for one one semester and I was like this is lame, I'm out what was the band no like like school like school band not marching band, like, but the school band. I was in the school band. I was like this is lame, I'm out of here, and so I was like I'm going to play basketball and so I yeah, I didn't. So I didn't know that there was a way to be in music if you weren't in the band or you weren't a singer yeah.

Stephen Brewster: 10:06

And then I found out when I was in college I realized oh, there's a. So when I was in college I was in college for a completely different major. Then I switched to broadcasting so that I could be around music.

Chris Estes: 10:17

Really yeah.

Stephen Brewster: 10:19

And then I met our mutual friend, jay King. Yeah, he was the road manager for this band and he and I became friends because they came and did a concert at our college and I interviewed them. I had the only black music show on the college radio station. It was like four hours on Monday nights. So I interviewed them the band's name was Out of Eden Interviewed them, jay and I became friends and then I just started devouring. It was really like P Diddy.

Stephen Brewster: 10:52

I was like, oh, this dude has no talent but he's able to be in the music business. I have no talent, maybe I can be in the music business. And so then I started just chasing that and I didn't know what it would mean, yeah, or like I didn't know, like what an anr person was or you know what, even how a record label worked or anything. But I just started, I would go to, I would go to, uh, barnes and noble, and I would take, like rolling stone vibe magazine, like everything I could get my hands on and just start reading it and like putting the dots together, and then I was like, oh, I could do this.

Stephen Brewster: 11:30

So then dropped out of college, my senior year with a semester to go, moved to Nashville to do music. I lived with Jay and we lived together.

Chris Estes: 11:39

Was Jay a goatee then, or what was he doing?

Stephen Brewster: 11:40

No, he was still doing road management for Out of Eden. We lived in this like shady spot over in antioch. His car got stolen out of the front yard and then we found it, like a week later, sitting on blocks down the street. Um, but I mean, it was, it was that ghetto yeah and uh, but it was also cool because he was a hip-hop guy too, so like it was like oh, there's another person that I can vibe with and he and I became great friends, obviously, but so yeah.

Chris Estes: 12:09

Yeah, you and I are in the Christian music space predominantly and, um, actually all the way in. We're fully in. So when did you like on the mission field, were you exposed to Christian music then and church music? Or how did that happen when you came over to the US?

Stephen Brewster: 12:25

Yeah, so I wasn't exposed to Christian music until I don't know, like maybe seventh grade. My cousins had some tapes and CDs that were of like Christian artists, and then, like I, started drifting more. Well, first off, Prince was. My parents were already a little like what's up with this dude? Right and then I started like after Prince. Then I found like Rakim and I started really going down like this hip hop direction. So they took me to like a Christian bookstore when we were back in the States and I bought like KJ52?

Stephen Brewster: 13:04

No way before that there was a group called PID Preachers in Disguise, wow, and they were like a knockoff Run DMC, yeah, and I like wore that tape out. And so then DC Talks First record came out. Oh yeah. And when that came out I was like, oh, this is like, this is dope, and literally became like the biggest Toby fan ever.

Chris Estes: 13:28

Yeah.

Stephen Brewster: 13:29

And, yeah, that started the, that started the Christian side. But growing up around ministry and in ministry I didn't really have a desire to go to New York or LA to do music.

Stephen Brewster: 13:42

I was like, oh, there's a Christian music industry, that's where I could value-wise, that's where I could live. Little did I know. It probably isn't, it may be less value, but, yeah, value-wise, this is where I want to live. And then ministry-wise, wise, being part of songs. And then what was funny was every time I'd get an opportunity to work at like a label or management company or anything I would go in with the intention of doing like hip hop or CCM, and I always got pushed into the worship side.

Chris Estes: 14:11

Yeah.

Stephen Brewster: 14:12

And so then, like, like, even when I worked at goatee. I didn't work at Goatee, I worked at 40 Records, and it was like Toby and Bill Gaither were starting a worship label, so I went to work at the place that had the best hip hop at the time and I ended up as the worship guy and so like, at some point I stopped being hard-headed and was like okay, god, this is what Toby and Gaither had.

Chris Estes: 14:34

a.

Stephen Brewster: 14:34

Yeah, had a label together like a joint venture label. Gaither had a label together A joint venture label. Who were the artists on it? Jason Upton, the first album I ever A&R'd was the album Faith. You don't A&R a Jason. Upton album you just show up. But yeah, jason, we had a guy named Sammy Ward, we had a band called Three Strand, we had a band called Circadian Rhythm, and then that's when.

Stephen Brewster: 15:01

That's when we found Matt Carney and Robert Marvin oh yeah during that season and like listening to a demo tape in the a demo CD on the drive from here to Florida for vacation and I was like this is dope, I wonder who this is. And ended up in Eugene Oregon and Matt walked in. I went to see this other band and I was like, yeah, this isn't going to work. But then Matt walked in and was like, can I play you some music? And I was like, oh my God, this is so good.

Chris Estes: 15:30

That was dope, yeah, so yeah, that's crazy.

Stephen Brewster: 15:39

So he was on that label too. He, well, no, we tried to sign him, yeah, but he ended up signing with uh, whatever that label was, it ended up going through columbia um, I forget the name of it. Now is it red no, no, it was before that before that yeah, but he ended up. It was like a ccm label through cmg and then or no through yeah, through, uh, through.

Stephen Brewster: 15:55

I think it was through provident, and then it ended up going through columbia. It ended up going through Columbia. He ended up going to Columbia and getting signed there eventually.

Chris Estes: 16:01

Yeah, wow. So what other songs like growing up past Prince pre-working at record in the label business, what other songs really impacted you along the way?

Stephen Brewster: 16:13

So the song Faith by Jason Upton for sure huge. I remember Michael W Smith. Ironically he sang Agnes Day and I was like, oh my gosh, this is like Massive. That impacted me. I Surrender All is probably like my favorite hymn ever. So I don't know like. I think different songs impact you in different seasons. Yeah, for sure different songs impact you in different seasons?

Stephen Brewster: 16:38

Yeah, and so it's they. They almost become like like yearbooks or mile markers to like what you're going through in that season of life, and so I think every season had a different special song. Yeah, but those would be some of them.

Chris Estes: 16:50

Yeah, that's good. So you worked on a bunch of songs. We've worked on songs. You're still working on songs. What are some of the favorite ones?

Stephen Brewster: 17:06

that you have had a hand on that. You look back and say, like, man, these are ones that are markers for me. Uh, well, I don't. I mean. I mean, there's ones that are markers that you're like you go, oh we. We got to be part of that. Even if they didn't necessarily leave an indelible mark on your soul, you knew the impact of what it was. So we both got to work on Healer. That was a cluster. It was awesome when it was awesome.

Chris Estes: 17:30

I just shared that story with Ryan. The funny thing is a lot of people don't even know the whole backstory of it. What?

Stephen Brewster: 17:37

most people don't know is. I remember john walking into the office knocking on my door, going we got to take that website down and I'm like what are you talking about? And so so like obviously he there was. Revelation song was one. Um, I mean, I've been. It's been a blessing of my life to get to be part of, like Graves in the Gardens yeah, you've been with Elevation for a while.

Chris Estes: 18:02

How long have you been with?

Stephen Brewster: 18:03

them. We've been working together for like seven years, so is that?

Chris Estes: 18:09

How Will you Hear? Below was the first album.

Stephen Brewster: 18:11

That song is still timeless, yeah and then what I really love is like watching, like some of the young teams that I'm working with or the developing teams I mean, I'll be young in age, but developing teams when they finally start to get their song and Red Rock's Good Plans and there's no Way, both of those songs I'm like, oh my gosh, these are the stepping stones for you to steward what God's put in front of you.

Chris Estes: 18:41

So good, yeah, I was talking to somebody about Red Rocks the other day and just how long they've been at it and just like writing songs, and writing songs out of authentic places and just you know, not with any other purpose than to do that when god breathes on it, he breathes on it you know, yeah, that's awesome.

Chris Estes: 19:01

Um, so this is. This song ties right into the to the kind of theme of the podcast like and you've seen, we've seen a lot of songs together like this, but what are some that you'd highlight to say, like man, I really saw the power of what a song can do in this particular one or that particular one.

Stephen Brewster: 19:18

I mean the blessing was definitely like. That was like a moment in time song. You know, like I think God gave the team that song during the pandemic like to give a lot of people hope during that moment, you know.

Chris Estes: 19:38

And it came out. Was it pre? It was pre pandemic.

Stephen Brewster: 19:40

It was like right. Like it, you know, it was like right it was recorded pre-pandemic. It was recorded like a couple weeks before the pandemic it's crazy and then it came out on that album that was yeah during the pandemic. So yeah but like. But it was, it was a pandemic song.

Chris Estes: 19:59

Yeah, it was right, yeah, for sure, and it just like that one was that time, that season.

Stephen Brewster: 20:04

Yeah, I mean, I don't know, there's so many I mean Good Plans. When I heard that the first time, I was like, oh, this song is going to minister to a lot of people. Yeah, a lot of people, a lot of people.

Stephen Brewster: 20:21

so, yeah, I probably don't have a great answer for like one of those songs and everyone is so different in like I mean Monday Morning Faith, like we knew that song was special and then it came out and nobody was listening to it. But the like, the passion scores were like through the roof and we're like, oh, we just don't have an audience yet, yeah. And then all of a sudden, like something takes off on Tik TOK, and then you're like, oh my gosh now everybody like now, everybody loves this thing.

Chris Estes: 20:54

Yeah, that's the thing about music now, man, with loves this thing. Yeah, that's the thing about music now, man, with streaming access. It's like songs literally can't have a longer life and they can rise and fall. And before it was like. I remember King of my Heart with Bethel Music. Like you know, sarah did that song a while it had been out for a while and then Steph and Amanda loved leading it and it just kind of escalated from there and it kind of gave it second life.

Chris Estes: 21:18

But now it's like TikTok and these other platforms you just never know man.

Stephen Brewster: 21:22

Well, I mean, like Miguel, had a number one song in the country last year on a song he made 10 years ago you know it's crazy. So yeah, yeah.

Chris Estes: 21:31

Yeah. So this is a really I'm super curious about this answer what songs I mean you've done? Well, first off, let's talk about what you do, okay.

Stephen Brewster: 21:44

I hate getting this question because we're like what?

Chris Estes: 21:46

exactly do you do? But you do some, and this will be great context for the question and the answer. But what you work in several areas in the creative process, the music industry, like what? How would you describe it?

Stephen Brewster: 21:59

I mean, I help churches release music. So if you're a church or a ministry and you're going to release music, we've kind of figured out a way to help you. And so we have basically three different lanes that that kind of falls into. One is completely independent. You have no partners, it's just you at your church doing music. We'll come in and in that context we actually do everything. So we help you with publishing, we help you with strategy, social media, distribution, whatever it is you're doing. We're label services. It's a lot of work. We do everything with you, with your team. And then the second lane is a team that maybe has a little bit more consistency and volume and the next step for them is some type of a distribution relationship. So like we'll either help them to navigate one for you or we have a distribution partner that we run, that we can run you through that if that's the best option. And then the third one is like a team that actually has a record deal and then more managers in that context yeah, yeah.

Chris Estes: 23:04

And then you do a lot of creative coaching. Yeah, I don't do as much creative stuff anymore because this just takes up.

Stephen Brewster: 23:11

God's been so kind the only team that we've. When I got fired from my last job, I texted my friend and said, hey, do you need help with your music? And he's like, yeah, we wanted to hire you for the last four years but you've always had a job and so I started work. That was like the first artist that I started working with in this context seven years ago and then since that day I've only asked one other artist if I could help them. Wow, everything else has like literally been like I meet this person or somebody gives my number.

Stephen Brewster: 23:43

And and so, like some people are like how did you build your business? And I'm, like God's, responsible for sales and marketing.

Chris Estes: 23:50

I just handle operations. That's funny, but you are a great creative and brander, like you, that's. That's, you are a great creative and brander. Oh, thank you, that was my first experience with you too, and I think that's part of all music.

Stephen Brewster: 24:00

Like you have to like, I think, if you don't have a creative bent to you you quickly fall into the suits category.

Chris Estes: 24:08

Yeah, right, and that's. I never want to be in that.

Stephen Brewster: 24:11

For the record, you knew when I was wearing suits, right, I don't even own one and so, like I do, I mean creativity has been a big part of what I got got to do and I was creative arts pastor several churches for a long time and got to speak around creativity and process and things which is awesome. I love that um and then um.

Stephen Brewster: 24:31

You know, branding is every yeah, it's in any context, you know, and now more than ever with content, especially now with music like, really we spend more time doing brand management than we do anything else, and music plays a part of it, but it's it's the, it's the social side, it's the music side, it's the merch side, whatever it is.

Chris Estes: 24:51

So yeah, so the question is this what songs have impacted you the most or taught you the most? Not really impact, but taught you which would be an impact. Taught you the most or taught you the most? Not really impact, but taught you which would be an impact. Taught you the most that you've applied to your profession, to your areas of focus and things that you do.

Stephen Brewster: 25:06

I mean, they're probably all hip-hop songs because, from the motivation side, you know, like, like the angst of hip hop has helped me avoid becoming comfortable, because I mean, when you come from a mission field I don't know if anyone knows this or not, but that's not the most lucrative paying job in the world and so we grew up. My parents were great, they did their absolute best, but we grew up in the world. And so, like we grew up, my parents were great, they did their absolute best, but we grew up in a world that was like modest and so that when a hip hop artist starts to talk about the struggle, like I can resonate with that right and so that really drives. Like Lil Wayne, for sure, like a lot of the things that he's put out have really been like the songs that are like drivers for me. I think, um, and he's a hustler like he gets it?

Stephen Brewster: 26:08

I mean, I think, I think drake yeah I, I would say like um, what was that song? The song that had, uh, drake, eminem little wayne? Oh, um, best, ever, best, best ever yeah yeah, uh, it was. It was after that mixtape, it was on the lebron james like mixtape thing, um gosh forever, forever, yeah, forever. That song was one for sure, because because it was a perfect branding, like it was all of these.

Stephen Brewster: 26:39

It was the combination of, like all of these different brands coming together from different angles, saying the same thing and then tied to a documentary that was also tied to an album that was also, but it was reminiscent, naturally and authentically, to each of their brands and to the brand of the project. So, like for me, that would probably like, if there was one that I was like, oh, that's an education forever would be that.

Chris Estes: 27:07

Yeah.

Stephen Brewster: 27:08

I think a lot of the U2 stuff too, like, especially like around how they've like used their music to impact, like the Apple relationship that they had and the red relationship, like there's some. There's a lot of like intentional beauty inside of those as well.

Chris Estes: 27:27

Yeah, what a day we live in. Where you can, you can actually study this stuff now from a lot of different angles. But yeah, what about you? Is there one that, like man, I think for me, I think music musically, uh, I think from a musician standpoint because I play guitar and I've been in bands and stuff like jazz has always taught me a lot, like I just love the, the spontaneity of jazz, the uh, no rules approach of jazz and, honestly, like I learned from a musician's standpoint, like you, you serve the song like you know, even even like a miles or a Coltrane or whatever.

Chris Estes: 28:05

Those guys are obviously virtuosos, are out front, but they're all like everybody, every instrument is serving each other and you have your breaks and you have so. But, man, I learned a lot from hip hop too. I think hip hop to me taught me that you know, being into metal and punk and stuff like that and like grunge and alternative in the 90s, like there was a, there was a scene and there was like a movement per se in music. But to me, what hip hop did is it captured like street culture, like and I knew that from New Orleans I'm like man, this actually is a soundtrack and then you back it up to I knew that from New Orleans. I'm like man, this actually is a soundtrack. And then you back it up to like I was in New Orleans when, like, breaking came out, like you know, the Breaking and Poppin movie, all that stuff, and then that kept progressing and then you had like a West Coast vibe that captured what's happening in the street there and I think it even still does to this.

Stephen Brewster: 28:54

And then like, if you look at, like what the way like Biggie and um, I mean like yeah. East Coast rap was its own thing. Southern rap you know, Atlanta had its own sound.

Chris Estes: 29:05

Yeah. And then when you think like exactly like Lil Baby coming out of Atlanta, like it's like, it's, like there's, there's, that kind of puts a yeah and like Outkast, outkast, yeah, outkast, outkast and Goody Mob Like Wildcats.

Stephen Brewster: 29:15

And Goody Mob that was like Jermaine Dupri, that was a Da Brat. That was all like this moment in that you listen to a song and you're like that's Atlanta, yeah, yeah.

Chris Estes: 29:27

And I think I mean you and I both probably had this similar impact. But Hillsong United, the years that we got to be involved, just seeing the groundswell and what that could be and not in the unconventional ways- I have a question for you.

Stephen Brewster: 29:44

Oh, so, working with songs. Sometimes you can work a song and the process or the things that happen around that song aren't great. Yeah, you don't have to say what they were. But have you had songs that everybody else loves and has ministered to them, but you have trauma attached to those songs.

Chris Estes: 30:13

Yes, there are, you know, and you have to like. For me it's just like dealing with trauma Like you go through the battle. Well, for me it's like, it's just like dealing with trauma Like you go through the battle. Well, you know. There's like the creative process can be messy and tense, anyway, Right, and which can be beautiful and it can help create great art. Then there's like the necessary tension and the mess that can come with it and that's where the trauma can hit, especially when you're trying to serve a songwriter and artist and a label and all that stuff. So I have, I've had to go into like a very self-therapeutic place with it and be like you know what it is ministering to people and you kind of have to get out of the trauma by just dealing with just the stuff Like it's. You know. I think the thing for me is always like, was it necessary to go through all that?

Stephen Brewster: 31:01

Like you know, it was not necessary and it's usually a person. Yeah, it's like you can usually attach a person to why you felt that way about the song.

Chris Estes: 31:09

Yeah, and then you see, but to me what helps with that is when you especially in our genre is you get to see the ministry impact and the testimony of how it's impacted people and you focus on that and then you kind of come out of it with like there's something beautiful that came out of that.

Stephen Brewster: 31:24

I think I have a couple, though, that I've not been able to get over that hill.

Chris Estes: 31:27

Yeah, there's probably one that's still. I have to repent and ask the Lord to soften my heart up. But yeah, it's just funny, man, I guess in our genre like that should not happen.

Stephen Brewster: 31:41

no, no, but that's the power of music and songs right like like you can hear a song and remember a smell, yeah, and in a moment in time, a season, a place that you were like. Yeah, there's so much nostalgia and the power of a song is so magical that it can also trap the bad moments and the bad memories and the pain of something.

Chris Estes: 32:05

Yeah, and it's funny because when you experience that song and you have that lingering trauma and you're in a worship atmosphere, it is a struggle. Oh yeah, that's complicated for sure. It gets very complicated. So that's a good question. I've never been asked that question.

Stephen Brewster: 32:23

I don't think I've ever been asked that question before either, but I've definitely wrestled with songs because of things attached to them. It's never the song.

Chris Estes: 32:34

Healer could have been that for me, for both of us. We had a lot of cleanup to do with the aftermath and all of it right. And then when Carrie came in and she recut that song, I think she brought some redemption to it.

Stephen Brewster: 32:50

I do think, though, that, like we were part of the masses, though Like everyone had trauma with that song, because, like it wasn't something that was covert, yeah, that nobody found out about, whereas, like I think, for me it's oftentimes like the conversations that were had in putting the song together or putting it on a project, or how it got to the like, some of the things that are messy that no 99 of the world never would have known, and they all love it, and you're like I hate it. I hate it because of what I dealt with to be part of it.

Chris Estes: 33:25

All right. So I got, I got a bonus question for you. On the flip side of that, what songs do you and you can name this? These songs could be a positive. What songs have you fought for? That You're like I will die on a hill for this song. We, this has got to get on there and and it did, and you're like yes and yeah, that's, uh, that's good.

Stephen Brewster: 33:45

Um, so there's a song by this church called ccv music and it's called bloom and the I the. The ultimate terrible irony is we released it the same day. Mitch wong released his song bloom. Yeah, so there was two blooms on the same day. Everything was blooming. Uh, obviously, mitch is going to get more editorial playlisting love than than our church that we work with is.

Stephen Brewster: 34:08

But, um, I like that song. I was like man, this song is just it's too good Like, and and so I I felt like, um, I hustled, uhled, really hard for that song. I mean, I hustle hard for all of them, but yeah, there's ones that minister to you differently and then you feel like a different gear.

Chris Estes: 34:32

That you want to go to. That's good man. Yeah, that's the fun part about when I was talking about the tension and it can get messy. Like that creative process is actually fun. Like that's the fun part about when I was talking about the tension and it can get messy that creative process is actually fun.

Stephen Brewster: 34:42

That's the fun fight trying to fight that out and something that maybe you hear, that somebody else doesn't hear. I will say it's interesting working with churches. They'll write a song and they'll know it works for their church and then, at the first blush, maybe a label or publisher is like I don't hear it.

Chris Estes: 35:04

Yeah.

Stephen Brewster: 35:05

But then all of a sudden it like works yeah, and then everybody said they heard it once it works, it's like oh yeah, yeah, we knew from the beginning from the very beginning, you know, but it is fun to watch.

Stephen Brewster: 35:17

I think worship is regional and so if it works for your church, maybe that song never comes out, but it can be massively successful inside of your zip code, and so that's the fun part of when, hey, we know this works at our church and we're going to fight to put it on a project, and then it starts to work everywhere.

Chris Estes: 35:38

Yeah, that is a beautiful thing, and we're going to fight to put it on a project and then it starts to work everywhere. Yeah, that is a beautiful thing, Because you don't ever. You know, I heard John Mayer say this in an interview at Berkeley. He's like you're not smarter than your audience. He's like you can think this is the song he's like, but your audience has the last say in that.

Stephen Brewster: 35:53

Yeah, well, and that's the thing Our job is so complicated, because nobody knows. Yeah, right, like you don't know, I mean you might have an instinct and go oh, I really think that this song has appeal, but ultimately the the yeah, the listener votes and they vote.

Chris Estes: 36:13

I mean more so now than ever, because they don't really have to pay for it now more than ever.

Stephen Brewster: 36:17

Cause, yeah, they don't really have to pay for it. 100% now more than ever. Because, yeah, they don't have to pay for it and they're probably discovering it on a social channel before they discover it on a playlist or definitely on the radio.

Chris Estes: 36:25

Yeah, and they don't have to recommend it or share it.

Stephen Brewster: 36:29

Yeah, right, right.

Chris Estes: 36:31

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, that's so good, man. Well, this has been great. Is there any current song you're working on that you're like man, I feel like, or a song that just came out? You're like man, this feels powerful.

Stephen Brewster: 36:42

Yeah, I mean, there's a song on the new SCU record called there's two of them actually Move of God and what a God, and both of those songs, like Move of God, like from the first time I heard it I was like, oh, this is like the most mature song, yeah, and they, they write like dope music. But this was like, oh, this is the song that, like, that's the one a student can sing and worship to and their parents will sing and worship to it as well.

Stephen Brewster: 37:08

Yeah, and it's, it's, it's crazy. I mean it's, it's a crazy song so, wow, did it just come out? It hasn't come out yet oh, it comes out, uh, in april. The single will come out in april, okay, next month. So, yeah, not too far. Yeah, it might be out. It hasn't come out yet. Oh, okay, it comes out in April.

Chris Estes: 37:20

The single will come out in April, okay, next month. So yeah, not too far. Yeah, it might be out by the time this comes out, that's right. It could be Cool man. Well, bro, thanks for taking time.

Stephen Brewster: 37:29

Thanks for having me. It means a lot.

Chris Estes: 37:30

It's fun, man, all Do you have a suggestion.

Stephen Brewster: 37:34

Usually you just push the button. Yeah, that little red button, that one right there. Bye-bye now, yeah, push it.