Tom Booth: 0:03

Well, you could pick just about any Rich Mullins song. Well, when we wrote that song together and it was with Mitch McVicker as well, you know he got off the plane. I picked him up at the airport. He said hey, I'm writing a song, you're going to write it with me? I was, yes, Mr Mullins, but it was amazing to be in the room with him and watch him work and work and work for a word or two. Really, Pace, we're out, we're on a paddock. Pace around a swimming pool. Pace, Wait, I think it's of. I said to myself, this is greatness.

Chris Estes: 0:46

Every word matters welcome to the power of songs podcast, where we explore the powerful connections songs have throughout the journey of life. All right, man, we're uh live. I don't usually do like a big intro, I just start kind of talking. We're old friends, we go way back, tom, you and I, that's right, new old friends. New old friends you are. I don't even know what. I used to say what episode it was, but then I got in trouble because I would forget which episode it was. I used to say what episode it was, but then I got in trouble because I would forget which episode it was. We're here in beautiful Nashville with a lovely view of the JW, tom excited to have you on Tom Booth, old friend from way back Weeks.

Chris Estes: 1:42

I mean not you're old.

Tom Booth: 1:43

I mean, yeah, our friendship is so old, it's good to be here.

Chris Estes: 1:44

Chris Tom is a recent friend that feels like an old soul friend, and I'm excited to have you on because the more we've gotten to know each other, the more we've talked about music. You play our mutual love of guitars, which has spiraled into a bunch of classic conversations that trailed into Led Zeppelin and many others.

Tom Booth: 2:05

That's right.

Chris Estes: 2:07

Uh, so, um, the, uh, the power of songs is really all about, um, the, the power of songs and the. I like to start with the origin story, so like when at you know whoever works in music artist, musician, in the music business um, you're in it because you love music and there's some point in your life typically this is when you're younger, and which I love to answer, to hear the answers, this question, because how young it was and when did it happen? But for you, when? When did you first remember, like, hearing music and falling in love with music? Like what? Do you remember? What songs it was, or what song that maybe did that, or artist, or I do.

Tom Booth: 2:49

My parents were very involved in the arts. Um my mom, she sang a little in theater, but my dad was very passionate. My dad played the drums, played jazz. I grew up hearing Beethoven and our stereo really loud. He would play for me Eric Clapton. He played for me Pink Floyd, the Beatles, debussy I heard everything. So, yeah, I grew up and he was very excited about music.

Chris Estes: 3:24

Was he playing records? Those were records.

Tom Booth: 3:26

I love that. Yeah, so every song started like this that is funny.

Chris Estes: 3:35

So that's a great experience too, because you don't just skip around on a record, you're committed to one side of the platter at least.

Tom Booth: 3:46

Well, that's right, that's right. But I'll tell you my what came to my mind in terms of a physical experience in front of musicians. It's funny I had this return of this memory.

Tom Booth: 3:57

We I grew up in arizona and we would a few times drive to mexico this is the late 60s, I'm six or seven or eight and we went to Keno Bay I remember that name and at night the local peoples there, the Mexican people, would build a bonfire and gather around with acoustic guitars and sing for hours. And as an eight-year-old, I'm just watching this and listening and thinking. I was mesmerized. And secondly, the other memory I have is at about 10 years old my grandfather played classical piano and I went to visit him in Kentucky and he sat down I can still see it in my mind's eye and he played. I believe it was Mozart.

Chris Estes: 4:47

Yeah.

Tom Booth: 4:48

I thought he was. It was like magic. He was a magician, he knew which keys to hit and it was beautiful and I think that experience made me just want to play.

Chris Estes: 4:58

Yeah, so what did you? Did you get drawn into piano Because you saw that, or was it Well?

Tom Booth: 5:04

my dad was a drummer, my brother was a drummer, so I played drums and I thought, oh, this is boring Three drummers. So I was thinking, how are we ever going to make music? So the Beatles were the big deal for me. So I begged and begged and got a guitar in eighth grade.

Chris Estes: 5:22

Wow, what was that guitar?

Tom Booth: 5:25

Because you have quite the collection you've even been talking about today okay, um, my mom, you know we didn't have a lot of income, uh, we weren't well to do, but she bought me a degas. It's a, it's a japanese martin takeoff. Yeah, you know, and they're great guitars and I remember seeing the, the price tag, yeah, this is 1975 I was 14 it was 300 bucks that's a lot of money in 75, that's a lot of money, and for my mom to. I thought I had better learn this thing because we just spent 300.

Chris Estes: 6:01

I mean that was like was it electric or was it? It was an acoustic, Acoustic okay.

Tom Booth: 6:05

I had an Aria Telecaster. I just remembered now A yellow Aria Telecaster, but it was something about that expensive acoustic guitar and I said I better deliver the goods.

Chris Estes: 6:16

Mine was from page 239 in the JC Penny catalog. It wasn't $300. How much was it? I think it was under $100, I think it was like one of those $99 or less specials, but um it was a fender knockoff um but I love it tone. Maybe, yeah, I think it was a silver tone. I don't even know who made it, but um, that's crazy. You learn on an acoustic guitar, so you got to actually like, cause you don't just fake it on an acoustic guitar, no, I think.

Tom Booth: 6:46

I think I started electric but moved after hearing Crosby, stills and Nash and that I think even then, chris, I knew what a Martin sounded like.

Chris Estes: 6:57

Really and.

Tom Booth: 6:58

I in my head whenever I heard a certain acoustic guitar and it was years later I finally said what is that sound?

Chris Estes: 7:04

I heard a certain acoustic guitar and it was years later. I finally said what is that sound? You knew it. Yeah, all right, can we just pause for a second and talk about the Martin story you shared with me at lunch? Amazing like just share with what, martin Jim, you have in your house right now.

Tom Booth: 7:14

I have a 1945 d28 herringbone original, not a reissue.

Chris Estes: 7:19

Not, it's like the original it's.

Tom Booth: 7:21

You know how many years is that? 70, almost 80 years old. Yeah, amazing instrument under the bed find um, amazing. Wow, yeah, that is you got to play it, man. Uh, you got to come over be careful to even hold it.

Chris Estes: 7:36

I'd make sure any buttons on my shirt.

Tom Booth: 7:38

T-shirt only get out with the white gloves.

Chris Estes: 7:42

That's amazing, man. Um, all right. So backing up to, you're exposed to music growing up, your dad, at early age. Um, when did you remember like I, I like this song or I like this band, or you started having your own taste in music?

Tom Booth: 8:00

um man, I heard so much, but the memory that comes to mind honestly, was the first time I wrote a song.

Tom Booth: 8:07

Really, I was in eighth grade okay and in sixth grade one of my very best friends died tragically accidental, uh gunshot and I think I carried that memory for a couple years inside. And when I learned A minor and G and I threw in an E7, I wrote this song and it was like a moment man. First of all I thought everybody wrote songs, because everybody I looked at that played guitar, wrote songs. So I thought that's what you're supposed to do. And something happened in writing that. And when I played it for others I was lucky that that first one was actually kind of decent, yeah, and when I sang it for some people I could feel the room kind of change. You know, it's always on to something, even as a kid well it's hard to explain that yeah, yeah, so were you listening to what?

Chris Estes: 9:05

what's? What first song did you learn to play?

Tom Booth: 9:11

I think it might have been. Uh, I think there was a rolling stone song. I think there was angie, or maybe this is too late, but sweet old malabama comes to mind.

Chris Estes: 9:24

But it's probably a beatle song. I don't know, yeah, I really don't know that's when you know you've been playing for a while, you've written a lot of songs. Yeah, so you put you wrote your first song in eighth grade and then once you put out your first music because you've put out a lot of music over- the years yeah, um, it wasn't so.

Tom Booth: 9:43

I was writing all through high school and through college and I had, at 17 years old, an encounter with the Lord that that changed everything. It changed the way I saw the world. It changed the way I saw music. Everything changed and I was still trying to figure out what that meant, but the songs I started writing changed. Wow, um, songs I started writing changed. I grew up Catholic. I was Catholic-ish, but I had this encounter with— I haven't heard that phrase.

Chris Estes: 10:14

We're kind of Catholic.

Tom Booth: 10:17

But to be honest, I was 17. I was searching, I was really searching, and I had this mystical encounter with the lord I. It's hard to explain. I don't know if the this is too long too short of a program, but I love it I was just in desperate need of god.

Tom Booth: 10:37

And um, I'll just tell you the story. I uh, I was a pretty happy-go-lucky kid, played football, basketball, music, kind of normal and everything kind of collapsed. My senior year I had a relationship with a young lady. That just wasn't healthy and it was not built on things to last, and when that all crashed I kind of knew instinctively that my life was not based on something that was going to survive the challenges of life. And so, honestly, I don't know why, I started reading the Bible, I started going to different churches, I started asking questions. Even Catholic Christian kids around me were like hey, man, that's a little heavy Go too deep, man they left, everybody left.

Tom Booth: 11:23

So quickly to say, one night. I've been going to church now, and then I've been reading scripture, but I didn't really belong to much of anything. And I woke up in the middle of the night, in June of 19…. And there was this sense of, to be honest, darkness, wow, a darkness in the room, a fear. Maybe evil is too strong of a word, but it was something.

Chris Estes: 11:51

I'd never experienced, yeah.

Tom Booth: 11:53

And Chris, I reached over and grabbed that guitar and I wrote my first song of faith, of trust, of God's love, of God's light. It just came out note for note, word for word, and I sang it 10 times in a row. I didn't write it down, it just kept coming, wow, and I watched the room get a little warmer and a little brighter, like supernaturally change, and there was an ambulance going by.

Chris Estes: 12:22

Speaking of.

Tom Booth: 12:24

Life can be tough. It's hard. Ambulance going by, speaking of Life's can be tough. If that was the end of the story, it would be like, oh, that's nice, you know. But I went back to bed and kind of had the sense of God's love. But then, frankly, he spoke to me for the first time. Wow, it wasn't like John Wayne's voice, but it was deep inside. Yeah, he said, get up.

Tom Booth: 12:44

it's like two in the morning now 1 30, get up, tell your sister that I love her. I was like oh no, wow, I've heard of this stuff at the prayer meetings.

Chris Estes: 12:57

I was going to.

Tom Booth: 12:58

I said I'm getting weird, I'm like good idea, and when I get up in the morning I will go tell them I would negotiate. And it was so strong, get up, get up.

Chris Estes: 13:07

Wow.

Tom Booth: 13:07

So I got up and I remember thinking this At 17 years old I thought no wonder Christians are so weird. It's you, it's you, lord. And I said I'm just going to do this. I opened the door and I looked down the hallway and, wouldn't you know it, the sister that I knew I was supposed to speak is sitting in the middle of the night on a couch by herself. So I walked down that hallway and said hey, you didn't think I'm crazy, but God loves you. God wanted me to tell you how much he loves you. And she started crying and she had been through the worst night of her life. A crime had happened to my sister that night and I knew, right then, there's no going back. And everything changed for me, like the music changed the purpose, for the music changed what I'm supposed to do with my life, what I'm supposed to do with music. And so there it is.

Chris Estes: 14:16

What a story, man. So that that song that you wrote was it. Did you ever do anything with that song? You know what?

Tom Booth: 14:25

I never released it, never. I'll send it to you.

Chris Estes: 14:29

It's like it's called with you, my lord yeah, he just kind of came out, I think when you said that I think about david right when he was singing and playing for Saul. He was tormented and there was darkness and evil, you know, tormenting him, but music and the power of song can change atmospheres and environments. Man, that's amazing Wow.

Tom Booth: 14:52

God. Yeah, God does that man, you know at that point I wasn't in a prayer group, I wasn't in a you know it wasn't. It was so real, it was mystical, it was undeniable, that's how he works, man, yeah.

Chris Estes: 15:06

So after that, did you start listening to different music, did you start playing different change?

Tom Booth: 15:13

everything huh that summer. Actually I'll tell you it was the summer of 1979. Okay, I was 17.

Chris Estes: 15:20

Listeners could do the math already because I think you mentioned an age and a year earlier.

Tom Booth: 15:25

I'm in my 60s and I'm doing fine. First, off.

Chris Estes: 15:28

You can't see him because we don't do video, but he does not look like he's in his 60s.

Tom Booth: 15:34

Yeah, I started. Somebody said, hey, you should come to this concert if you the stuff that's happening to you. I think this stuff happened to a guy named John Michael Talbot, I didn't know yeah him from anybody. So I went to this concert and here was a guy with who could play guitar and sing.

Tom Booth: 15:52

He was all of 23 years old wow and I thought maybe he was a little older 26, I'm not sure and he was great and I'm, I knew then. Oh, so I could do this with my life. I could write songs about jesus and sing and share light, love and hope. I mean, I was a simple kid. I was like, yeah, I'll do that, but I I've never grown the beard. Well, I did grow the beard and my wife would say thumbs down, yeah, off the beard.

Chris Estes: 16:21

So when the wife says that the beard has to come off, so you kind of talk about this a little bit more. Are there other songs that you would say specifically, like man, these songs were so powerful, they impacted me on my journey along the way. Maybe pre-encounterounter, post-encounter did you have like uh, I mean I think the beatles are. You know that music's going to be eternally impacting people for sure.

Tom Booth: 16:46

Well, maybe not internally, I mean, let it be earthly, yeah, earthly you know, but true art, somehow, even if the intention isn't asserted or right for the kingdom, there is that incarnational moment where beauty and truth and goodness do point. Yeah, to the creator of all truth, beauty goodness, maybe imperfectly, but so like, let it be really touched my heart. Um, that was a beautiful song, um it? What comes to my mind when you ask that question? I just there's so many songs, but it was the music later on in my life of rich mullins oh when I met rich, which is quite a story.

Tom Booth: 17:28

We got to be friends the last two years of his life wow stayed at my house. I stayed at his place. We hung out. There was. Is there another songwriter like that?

Chris Estes: 17:39

He's special. When did you encounter his music? Was it early in his career, like when you first came out?

Tom Booth: 17:45

I remember going to see Amy, amy Grant and this guy opened on a keyboard and it was rich. I remember going dude walks out by himself just playing keyboard, singing in an arena, uh, but it wasn't. It was later, it was 90s, 90 something where I I had early on listened to a lot of christian music but I as a songwriter was studying music, I was doing ministry, I just didn't follow all of christian music that much. But it was my wife saying you gotta hear this guy, rich Mullins, and that was undeniable. And then getting to meet him was a gift.

Chris Estes: 18:27

When did you meet him so?

Tom Booth: 18:30

95, he died he was 42 years old, so I met him when he was 39 or 40 how did you meet him?

Chris Estes: 18:37

What was it?

Tom Booth: 18:38

So that's a story. After I graduated college, I went to work for a Catholic parish. They said hey, can you help make the Mass kind of add some flair and add some depth? Go ahead, do your thing.

Tom Booth: 18:55

We trust you, and so I put together a band yeah, you know some people love me for this, and a lot of people didn't but I just, you know it was all for god, it was all for the church and we, we were doing this thing and, um, I was writing music and what happened is a lot of christian artists were would kind of stop in and would some Catholic, some Christian, I didn't care. And Kathy Cercoli came to our church Gosh, I haven't heard that name in a while. She was great.

Tom Booth: 19:28

I wrote a song called I Will Choose Christ in the 90s, 90-something, and you know how it is when you're in front of a group of people Kathy Cercoli's. At the end of Mass they put her in front, Everybody's cheering and talking and she's standing next to me and she goes. Hey did you write that last song, I'm like, yeah, she goes, I want to record it. I said, cool, you free tomorrow? Sure.

Chris Estes: 19:48

It was one of those things.

Tom Booth: 19:49

So the next day we got together, worked the song of mine for, as she said, radio and it went to number one and was Dove. We didn't win it, it was nominated for Song of the Year. So I got to come to this beautiful city in the 90s. So then she and I wrote another song, and then I wrote a song with Rich as well. So by the grace of God I had three number ones. I wasn't in the business really. I was doing other things that's amazing.

Chris Estes: 20:19

What was the song you wrote?

Tom Booth: 20:20

with rich uh, one of his last well, his last album. Nothing is beyond you yeah and uh, I'd actually given him a cassette of he and I doing it. And uh, they found it at the crash site. Unfortunately, he, he died in that car crash. And you know, after you get over well, you don't ever get over it. I remember thinking what will ever happen with that song. And sure enough, I got a call I think it was a and m records at the time that amy wanted to record it.

Chris Estes: 20:50

Wow, and I said yes, please yeah, yes, sign me up for that she's's amazing.

Tom Booth: 20:56

That's funny man. I got to tell her this when I stayed at his place. He had a very small thing and he insisted I have the bedroom and he sleeps on the couch. I said, no, man, I sleep on the couch. He goes no, you're the guest, you sleep in the couch. It was amazing hospitality and he was living a pretty radical Christian life. He had given away most of his possessions, so anything that he had had importance to it. And I remember I didn't snoop around, but his closet door was open and there was a framed picture of Amy Grant with Rich Mullins that he had kept. So when I met Amy after that song came out and it did well I told her he really treasured you. That's one of the few things he didn't give away.

Chris Estes: 21:47

So amazing man. So when you met him was he in that phase of his life and he was giving things and like downsizing.

Tom Booth: 21:54

Yeah, he had left Nashville and I, you know, I was a new friend so I didn't really even know all the history there, but he wanted to be on on the native American reservation and teach Bible and that actually didn't work out. But he, it was there. He simplified his life, he was enamored with St Francis of Assisi, who gave away all this possessions.

Chris Estes: 22:24

Is that how you pronounce it? Assisi? I always say Assisi, which Assisi sounds a lot better than yeah, he sounds stronger.

Tom Booth: 22:31

Assisi, and you know he was just seeking Christ and seeking yeah something more. He was hungry for something more, yeah, um. So that was a treasured relationship and yeah, wow, what an impact man.

Chris Estes: 22:48

So an extension of this question would be because you've had I mean you've done music, for we're not gonna talk?

Tom Booth: 22:54

thousands of years you've already. You already put your age out there as rich used to say look at my face, doesn't it look like it?

Chris Estes: 23:03

so, along the way, what I mean? I think music always, um, I think there's a generational cycle to music that has a generational voice that comes in, that's been influenced and impacted by the prior generations and to me, the ones that pioneer the next generation of sound are the ones that are not echoes, but they're influenced and they take that fabric in. So for you, having done music for a long, are there? Are there still? Songs in recent years or recent times? You're like man. These, these ones actually of some of the newer generations, have impacted me too well are.

Tom Booth: 23:47

We share a friendship with matt mara yeah and matt is, uh, a unique writer, a unique human, a unique, unique believer, a fantastic musician, and we just had lunch with Matt and we both love him much. I think he tapped into something that was uniquely his own. I think he would be in a category where he's not really repeating or necessarily echoing, but I think he found his voice in his song and it's impacted a lot of people. Very, very happy for him and happy for the church to have that. Not sure who else comes to mind, but somebody else will.

Chris Estes: 24:29

You've worked on a lot of songs. What are some of your favorite ones you've worked on? Could be ones you've written, ones that you've worked on that. Could be ones you've written, ones that you've worked with other people on well, I have to tell you when that song I will choose christ.

Tom Booth: 24:42

When kathy recorded it, yeah, and she invited me out to la for the mix. I'm like that'll be great, you know. So I was younger, so I'm just, I'm glad. I wasn't doing anything, I was just sitting there and I go. I really like those backing vocals. You know who? Who is that? And um gosh, I hope I don't blank on her name, but uh, I'm a big fan of stevie wonder. Oh yeah, stevie's first wife. You'll have to edit it in I'm blanking right now but she's singing backing vocals.

Tom Booth: 25:11

no way on, I will choose grace. So I man, god knows your heart, because Stevie, wow, special, you could put her name in later.

Chris Estes: 25:22

Yeah, we'll insert her name Use.

Tom Booth: 25:23

AI and it'll sound like me. So in 2005, I was doing a tour and I didn't want to bring four or five CDs Remember.

Chris Estes: 25:32

CDs, oh yeah, those things.

Tom Booth: 25:35

So I said to my publisher, ocp, why don't we just do a best of so I can bring one, yeah, and I'll be in Europe this summer. Why don't you guys call Abbey Road and I'll go to Abbey Road and record and they said sounds good.

Chris Estes: 25:49

Right Cha-ching Really.

Tom Booth: 25:52

So I spent a day there and we re-recorded two of my older songs and recorded two new songs. It was an amazing experience.

Chris Estes: 25:59

What songs were those.

Tom Booth: 26:01

I re-recorded I Will Choose Christ. I Never Liked the Original Recording and Be With Me, lord, which is kind of a gospel song that our friend. Israel Houghton he always loved that. He always threatened to record it. I wish you would.

Chris Estes: 26:14

Israel. If you're listening, there's still time in this.

Tom Booth: 26:16

You can do it. I wish you would. Israel, if you're listening, yes, you can do it. Come on, israel, the Lord is speaking. And then I had two new songs and one's called Slipping, which at the time that song was written, it was a big transition for me to look more inward. At some point spirituality becomes you do have to look inside, not to navel gaze but to really go deeper and I wanted to pray in a deeper way. So contemplation and Christian meditation mattered a lot. And that song if you listen to that song, you're like what is this guy talking about? It was, I call it, slipping, from being so outward and outward facing to look more to you know, the cave of the heart, where Jesus says where he, where God, resides, you know.

Chris Estes: 27:02

Yeah, so your first time to Abbey road was recording Like you didn't go on a tour, like you just walked right in.

Tom Booth: 27:08

Yeah.

Chris Estes: 27:08

Like at a session.

Tom Booth: 27:10

Players are sitting there and I'm trying to act normal. Actually I must not have looked like I was like cause I walked in and the drummer he goes. Yeah, dude, I know. First time I walked in here I had that look.

Chris Estes: 27:22

He read me like a book it was studio two oh wow, you know the beatles with the staircase and I'm just going, yeah okay yep, I'm here.

Chris Estes: 27:31

It's holy ground, um, what a great story. All right, so you have been involved with a lot of music, um, over the years. I love this question for guests like what, um, what are some stories that you remember that you, like man? I saw the power of you know you shared one when you wrote your first song. Like that was a powerful moment. But are there other songs that you're like man? I've seen the power of this song just impact people, or it's impacted me.

Tom Booth: 28:02

I have a memory pops into my head that I haven't thought of in years. I was in college and it was the early days of CCM Music and a guy named Michael Omardian Do you remember that name? I don't remember that name, michael and Stormy Omardian. He was a great producer, piano player. Yeah, and man, I learned a lot from my Protestant brothers and sisters about some boldness, to be more bold. And I don't even remember the song he was singing, but they were playing a song and he said if you're struggling it was a difficult time for me and he said if you're ever considering harming yourself or even taking your life which I wouldn't have said at the time I was thinking that, but I understood then why somebody would. But he boldly said that is not God's will for you. God desires life for you. Wow, and man, somehow the spoken word. It just changed me like, oh, don't go down that road mentally, god wants something else. And it taught me boldness in the midst of music ministry Speak the truth.

Chris Estes: 29:13

Where were you when you heard that?

Tom Booth: 29:15

College campus.

Chris Estes: 29:17

Like on the radio.

Tom Booth: 29:18

No no, it was in person, it was live.

Chris Estes: 29:20

Live Okay, yeah, yeah.

Tom Booth: 29:22

The other thing is I wrote a song, two songs that come to my mind. Here I Am, yeah I. It was another. You know this doesn't happen all the time, we're just hitting the highlights. It was another. You know this doesn't happen all the time, we're just hitting the highlights.

Tom Booth: 29:38

But I was a young father, a young husband, and I was doing music for a living and so it was hard to take. You know, pay for things, yeah, yeah, chris, I don't know. I woke up and it was like God. I could feel God's breath on my face, that in between time of your sleep and you're awake, but you're there and God was so present and I just started asking. I was like, oh good, you're here, help me out to be a good husband, help me out to be a good dad. And I asked all these questions what about finances? And my sense was here I am, here I am. It wasn't the most helpful information, except that I wasn't alone and that God would be with me. So I wrote a song called here I Am, so I wouldn't forget, and that has been recorded by many people and I've heard it. It's a song of comfort. And the other one would be a song called Sacred Silence, because, as I was starting to experience stillness, you know that voice from the scriptures is Samuel.

Chris Estes: 30:46

Yeah.

Tom Booth: 30:47

In the. I heard you in the silent, the wind and the whispering wind. So from my own catalog those two songs were gentle and I think have brought people to a place on the interior where God dwells.

Chris Estes: 31:03

Did you write here? I Am right after that, like that morning.

Tom Booth: 31:07

Dude. So, being a dork human, I thought I'm going to forget this. The answer is God is with us, emmanuel. God is with us, emmanuel. God is with us. God's not going to say invest in Bitcoin in a few years or coffee. Trust me, invest in coffee. You won't believe what it's going to cost. That would have been great, but it was. I'm with you. And so I went to my study, woke up, got my guitar, started playing this song, writing this song. It was happening. It was a beautiful moment. And then I remember my little daughter, carly, kind of busting in, you know, with a blanket over her shoulder and, you know, sucking her thumb. And I went. I had a choice in that moment do I shush her away yeah, daddy's having a mystical moment or welcome the child? So I put her on my knee. So she's. Verse two I am here in the face of every child. Oh, wow, I am here, you know, in in the, in the face of despair. I am here in every trial. Here I am, I am here, so it's amazing.

Chris Estes: 32:08

Could you give her writer credit for that? When I tell the story, she gets really she just heard that one dad, yeah, yeah I I call those beautiful interruptions um, my daughter was like that too. She would come in and she would uh, you know you're having that moment, you're like, you're in your space, you're having your intimate time with the lord or whatever, and she just, you know, they just don't know boundaries like that, they just bust, isn't it great, my daughter would.

Chris Estes: 32:32

She would do this thing. She's like dad, play that, play that thing, that's like you know she. She would describe the emotion of a guitar part and she's like all right. And then she and she couldn't write. She couldn't write um or spell yet um, but she could talk and she would like she would scribble on a paper, like she's writing out words, and she's like all right, play it. And then she would just start singing. How awesome, it was funny, man, um. But that reminds me that, like when, when you have, you have, you do have the option at that moment, like do you protect your time or do you invite the the beautiful interruption?

Tom Booth: 33:09

yeah, it felt like a test if this is going to be real. Yeah, you know, and so whenever I sing it, I remember that second verse yeah yeah, it's awesome.

Chris Estes: 33:20

You said something earlier today on the way back from lunch uh, kids spell love t-i-m-e. That's amazing, like a let's see. You've said two things in the in our long friendship history that will always stick with me that. And then last time we were together in Tucson you said these are the good old days. And I've told people that. I was like have you ever heard that? Because I was like this would be a great song. I even Googled it. I was like is there a song called these Are the Good Old Days? Don't tell people that until we write it. Chris, there's a bad country song, one weird indie folk song.

Chris Estes: 33:51

Oh okay, so it's a wide open space. Okay, but friends are like, yeah, I've heard that before. I'm like man, I've never heard that. I've heard like I remember the good old days, but I've never heard like these are the good old days, which is great. Like I love that phrase. So I'm looking forward to the next time we're together. I'll try to come up with something. All right, my last question for guests is always what songs or songs have impacted your profession. And for you it's really great because you've done. You know you've co-written, you've written, you've published, you've composed, you've been an artist, you've been a, a music director. So if you look back on it, like can you look at songs or some that that come to mind, you're like that actually shaped the way I do this wow, well, you could pick just about any rich mullen song.

Tom Booth: 34:48

Um, well, when we wrote that song together and it was with um mitch mcvicker as well, you know he got off the plane. I picked him up the airport. He said, hey, I'm writing a song, you're gonna write it with me. I was, yes, mr mullins, but it was amazing to be in the room with him and watch him work and work and work for a word or two. Really pace, we're out, we're on a paddy pace around a swimming pool pace. Wait, I think it's of. I said to myself this is greatness. Every word matters, yeah, the lyrics matter, they're. You know.

Tom Booth: 35:32

I remember at one point I kind of went off. I said I think this needs a bridge. I wrote a bridge and I brought it back in. I said, hey, what do you think of this bridge? And he goes. I've never really liked bridges, really. He said that, yeah, it was great. So he knew what he wanted and it was. Probably I had some impact of the song, but I think it was watching him write, yeah, and the level is deeply important to him. How long was that session? Seven hours, really.

Chris Estes: 36:08

Seven hours Wow, and you came out of it with like solid.

Tom Booth: 36:13

Yeah.

Chris Estes: 36:13

That song was chiseled, yeah, yeah, that song was chiseled, yeah.

Tom Booth: 36:16

Yeah yeah, he chiseled. Yeah yeah. He didn't like bridges, so I got a bridge for you. It's kind of old, but yeah he was beautiful.

Tom Booth: 36:27

I think too. I think, john, michael Talbot, some of that, a lot of stuff. But early on you're a young person. Yeah, michael talbot, some of that, a lot of stuff. But early on you know you're a young person. Yeah, you're looking for who you're supposed to be. And, um, you know, there's. There's a song of his uh, only in god is my soul at rest.

Tom Booth: 36:47

Yeah, and getting to know him later, I asked you know, when did you write that? It's based on solomon. He said you know, we've talked about St Francis. He really also tried to imitate St Francis to the point ofa beard and a robe, and he was living on a retreat center land and he had read that St Francis lived in a cave because for him Jesus embraced poverty to have the riches of God. And so St Francis said I'm going to imitate Jesus. So others have imitated St Francis. And I said, john, tell me about that song. He goes yeah, I tried to do it. I lived in a cave for a couple months. I wanted. He said he was being repentant, he was being a penitent, and he said it was New Year's Eve, he was by himself, he's in his dugout cave with a Bible and a guitar and soup and it started to snow and he wrote that song.

Tom Booth: 37:52

Only in God is my soul at rest, and man that when I did a lot of work in youth ministry I would tell kids you know, depend on God, he will not let you down, but it will cost you.

Tom Booth: 38:06

You might have to give away some things. Most of us aren't going to live in a cave. John ended up going maybe an apartment, and the cave of the heart is so important. What did Jesus say? Go to your inner room. Your Father knows you. Go to your inner room and pray in silence. The inner room was that cave of the heart. So that song Only in God.

Chris Estes: 38:30

Wow, I'm going to go listen to that song now with a whole new lens. That's great. Um, tom, thanks for being on um tune in next week, cause we're going to do um a power song story with Tom, which is a particular song that is so powerful that it deserves a little small little little podcast. But, um, that'll be next week's episode or, if you're listening to this, in the future, that would be an old episode.

Tom Booth: 38:59

We just time traveled. The next one.

Chris Estes: 39:03

What's today? Where are we man? Thanks so much.

Tom Booth: 39:10

This has been a really rich, rich experience. Man Honored to be your friend man, man and honored to serve the king with you love hearing the stories, um, especially rich mullins.

Chris Estes: 39:17

It's so good to hear you know he's his life is legacy. And then when you have people that are close to him and hear the, the inner stories like that, that, that also point to his humbleness and um man, it's great my honor thanks all right, we'll catch you guys next time, see ya.