The Power Of Songs
Music is more than melody and rhymes; it's the universal language that narrates our collective story. Take a journey with me as I talk to all types of people in the music industry about the power of songs. From the first songs that pulled them into the love of music, to the songs they've encountered along the way that had a powerful impact, we will have great conversations about the power of songs.
The Power Of Songs
From Church Drums to Grammy Nods: Michael Riley's Musical Journey
In this episode, I sat down with Michael Riley, a talented musician who's been making waves in the industry since childhood. We explored his journey from church drummer to Grammy-nominated collaborator, discussing the challenges of music directing and the impact of certain songs on his faith. Michael shared insightful stories from his career, including his work on high-profile projects with Justin Bieber and the lessons he's learned along the way. What struck me most was his humility and passion for music, despite his impressive accomplishments. Our conversation showcased the power of music to shape lives and careers, reminding me why I love hosting this podcast. If want to hear from a dedicated musician who's experienced the industry from multiple angles, this episode is for you.
Michael, you are so like, you're such a talent, bro, and you've done so much in it, and you're only 26 years old. But for someone to say, like you know, you worked on a Grammy nominated record like that, it's crazy, bro.
Michael Riley:Yeah, I wish it got, I wish it won. Yeah, one year.
Chris Estes:A lot of people get nominations, man. Only a few. Win, though, well, I shouldn't say a lot of people get nominations, man. If you win, though well, I shouldn't say a lot of people, actually a lot of people don't get nominations.
Michael Riley:I do want to shout out my brother, like tony hemmings, man he put me on a lot of records like a lot of stuff. He I think him working with me was me learning how to become a studio musician yeah, because like it's a different thing from the top.
Michael Riley:Yes, it's a totally different thing from. From the top he was like, hey, bro, space, like I don't need all that like block chords, like he taught me a lot. So now, when he calls me, it's not him sending back three mistakes, or me sending back all these takes. Now it's one take and he enjoys it, but at first I was sending five, six takes. He's like, bro, this is not it five, six takes you like, bro?
Chris Estes:this is not it? Welcome to the power of songs podcast, where we explore the powerful connection the songs have throughout the journey of life. All right, man, it's gonna be fun because, uh, you don't actually have the questions. I don't have the questions this should be fun you're one of my guests that hadn't had the questions.
Michael Riley:Are you serious?
Chris Estes:I've only had. I've had two other guests that opted not to have the questions.
Michael Riley:I would have opted for them, but I'll do without them. I'm glad I'm happy to do it.
Chris Estes:One of them actually regretted it afterwards. He wanted to redo it, so I haven't put that one out. Afterwards he wanted to redo it, so I haven't put that one out. Um, michael riley, welcome to this power of songs podcast. I'm honored. My friend here for chris um, thank you. You are my first md and keys player that I've had on the show, so that's special, um, and we've gotten to know each other recently, like actually less than a year, yeah.
Michael Riley:Yeah, we've done some these last few trips. Yeah, we've had to board together.
Chris Estes:Yeah, there's some road life.
Michael Riley:Yeah, some road life.
Chris Estes:We've navigated multiple northeastern states. Yes, sir, we just ate a lot of food at Monel's in Nashville. Shout out to Monel's.
Michael Riley:It was good.
Chris Estes:Family style soul food All you can eat Passing around the table. I had way too much fried chicken, brother.
Michael Riley:Bro, you tried to get me doc.
Chris Estes:And then I topped it off with that banana pudding.
Michael Riley:Yeah, bro, y'all wasn't going to get me with the banana pudding tonight. Yeah, I mean, man, I'm a sucker for that.
Chris Estes:But it's not a food show, it's a song show.
Chris Estes:So we're, going to talk about songs and man, you're one of those guys that I love to talk about that with, because you grew up around music so much it's been in your family, it's been in your whole life. So usually the first song, the first question I ask is about the first song you remember. You are one of those who grew up around music so you kind of had that soundtrack going on your whole life. But if you can rewind it back like, do you remember the first time you listened to your like, like you actually listened to the song, like actively there's a few songs like I would say actively todd trippett, um victory, come on.
Michael Riley:But one of the songs that really changed my life was oh, come to the altar really yeah that song, that song, wow, that song was very special to me to this day. Yeah, it's special to me so all right with ty.
Chris Estes:Was that just something? It because he has such a unique musical, bro musical intervention yeah, would that grab you, that pull you?
Michael Riley:it was the music that that grabbed me because I loved his, his band, you know, daddy was tripping on bass, spanky on drums Like these guys were like my heroes.
Chris Estes:Honestly, yeah, how did you hear it Like how did you discover Ty?
Michael Riley:YouTube, youtube, yeah, so like were you?
Chris Estes:was it like a passive thing that just popped up in your feed?
Michael Riley:Honestly, I used to watch this thing called Gospel Chops.
Chris Estes:Yeah.
Michael Riley:And his drummer was on Gospel Chops. So, from there you go from Spanky to Ty to try to find who he's playing for. Yeah, then you just go down the rabbit trail From there, that was it. I've been a Ty fan forever. Hours later, you're just tied up with Ty yeah.
Chris Estes:Man, I have a fun story with Ty. The first time I met Ty was here we're in Nashville and also shout out to Monel's. If you're in Nashville, you got to go to Monel's for sure. But back when I met Ty, I was in my early days at a Christian label, integrity Music, which had a gospel division and I was a digital guy with you know, dsps were still kind of iTunes store was still pretty new, small percent of the business. So everybody wanted to talk to the guy who did the digital stuff. So I got to work with all the main label stuff the gospel, the Latino, all this stuff and I was still I told you this story like I was kind of new to the Christian music space and I had no idea, didn't even know who Ty was. And this was back when the Gospel Music Association Dove Week. It was a whole week of events and they had a lot of showcases. So I was going to a bunch of showcases and we were at BB King's restaurant. We just went down Broadway Street you just discovered.
Michael Riley:Broadway.
Chris Estes:Street. So BB King had a spot right off of Broadway, multi-level, and Ty was in the basement with the. What was his name of his unit? It was Ty and the Victor.
Michael Riley:No GA, the GA, yeah, he had the whole GA crew with him.
Chris Estes:Oh yeah, so if you guys don't know, look up Ty Tribbett and GA.
Michael Riley:He was the that was a whole crew.
Chris Estes:I don't know how deep that ran, but it was a lot of people.
Michael Riley:It was a lot of people.
Chris Estes:It was a choir, it was a choir and a whole thing, and if you've ever seen Ty you know his energy. I didn't know what I was walking into, so I walked down his basement. He's doing a showcase saying it's like 11 o'clock at night he's got the GA they're all. My man came out and he had probably no bigger than this hotel bed space to move in and he used every inch of it without knocking somebody out that is tough, he just absolutely crushed it, man he had great energy dude, that's the same thing.
Chris Estes:The music, the musicianship was. They were just all so tight and great. Let's back up even further. How old were you when you discovered that? Yeah, I was probably, like probably 12 13 and you started playing when you're like five or six and I liked five or six playing drums in church in church yeah, my grandmother's church.
Michael Riley:You're that guy.
Chris Estes:Yes, sir, how did that happen? Did they just like man?
Michael Riley:my dad's a musician, yeah so my dad's a bass player, so I grew up watching my dad play, and then my uncle was the organ player at the church. So yeah, I mean it was bound for me to to become a musician did they just, like one Sunday, be like I might get up here I honestly don't even remember. I know I banged on pots and pans, yeah, before I got a chance to do it in church, that's all drummers too my grandma.
Michael Riley:she invested in me. She wanted me to be a drummer, so I played. She bought my first professional drum set and she put it in the church Do you remember the first Sunday you played?
Chris Estes:No, no, not at all. That's when you know you've been in music for a long, long time. Like some people forget their childhood memories like really young age. You guys are like I don't even remember when I started playing I just I remember keys.
Michael Riley:Yeah, I don't remember how did that transition happen from? Drums, keys, the keyboard player at the church I was at um shout out to pastor eric jackson yeah, um was the pastor of the church.
Chris Estes:He left and he was like I need you to play keys and you're like all right, and you play by ear like you're already here yeah, yeah, just by ear.
Michael Riley:And uh, I was blessed enough to have andre owens help me. He's a great organist in long island. Help me and get my ear together. And from there, man, I went home and I worked though I worked a lot to get right, and did you at that point be like goodbye drums.
Chris Estes:This is my new thing.
Michael Riley:I still love the drums like I still love every, every instrument I play. I love it equally, but I knew that something about that organ and those keys, I wanted to do it because I not to say I like control but I knew that they were the guys that you know. They were the mds.
Chris Estes:They were driving it. Yeah, they were driving and I wanted to be that guy.
Michael Riley:That's funny.
Chris Estes:So when your dad musician, grew up in a musical family, what were some of the first songs that you remember them listening to or playing? Was it all church music, all church music?
Michael Riley:but my dad played like Marcus Miller, jocko, like In the House. That's what I heard. He had all those tapes so I would listen to that stuff. Then my dad, when he rehearsed, he didn't rehearse in headphones, he rehearsed in speakers. So I heard the choir music Hezekiah Walker, james Hall. That was in my house. My mom was in the choir so just collectively they both loved music.
Chris Estes:Steep, deep man. So did you guys ever go to Hezekiah's? Because you were in New.
Michael Riley:York. Right, I never went to Hezekiah's church. My dad man. For some reason he just didn't let me come to the Too much, man, too much, I think it was just too much. I think there was some things I didn't know. But yeah, I never went to Hezekiah's church, but I went to a Hezekiah concert that my dad played. Yeah, for reggie parker, yeah I think his name.
Chris Estes:How was that? Yeah my dad was cold. I always thought he was.
Michael Riley:He was the guy, he was. He's killing crushing, he was killing. I remember that now.
Chris Estes:You shared this story with me because I love this story. I haven't fully connected all the aspects of it, but cory henry played your. Your grandmother's funeral.
Michael Riley:Grandmother's funeral yeah, I was gonna say grandmother, where you're playing my grandmother's funeral. So Grandmother's funeral, yeah I was going to say grandmother.
Chris Estes:Yeah, he played my grandmother's funeral. So how did that connection happen? Because I love. Corey Henry is awesome Snarky Puppy.
Michael Riley:At the time Corey wasn't that big, yet Really he was still local when my grandmother died, Corey, I mean, he was still.
Chris Estes:He was killing in New York and he was a church guy.
Michael Riley:He grew up in a church like close to mine so he double parked his audi. I'll never forget that. Yeah, double parties out and played my grandma's funeral. It was him, um, I forgot his name. He was chris brown's bass player at the time. He played bass, so my uncle and my dad were able to sit, and you know that's great.
Chris Estes:Their mom, yeah, that's the other thing. I love traveling with you because every city we go to which we've gone to some big cities like b, new York, chicago last week you always know the musicians.
Chris Estes:You have the mental Rolodex of all the cats in the town, yeah, and not just like you got to know where you're at. Not just B players, you know all the A players, all right. So, man, this is great. We can go down a couple different rabbit holes, but one for sure you started playing drums, do you remember? You know Ty definitely pulled you in. Would you say that was one of your first musical influences in like your style.
Michael Riley:My style. Well, I would say Ty's music, but Spanky's playing.
Chris Estes:Yeah, yeah.
Michael Riley:Spanky was like he had us in a chokehold. Like those years we all wanted to be like most drummers wanted to be like Spanky.
Chris Estes:It's different right. What stood out to you Like? What was the thing that grabbed you?
Michael Riley:He did a lot of timing switches yeah, and like crazy stuff and the stuff that it wasn't normal, it wasn't what other people were playing and I knew I wanted to sound like that yeah spanking and did you just have like a? Church kid at that point, or did you have one at the house? I had one at the house I had a apex at the house.
Michael Riley:It was apartment that we lived in, the freshman, I know, so you know they let me play though my neighbors. They didn't mind. Like you know, my mom knew when to cut it off, of course but. I had a, a mapex kit. It was like. I think it was like it's a 10 12. It was a 14 to 16. That was back when the floor times didn't have the legs on them but they had to stand to hold both the floor times.
Michael Riley:Yeah, yeah, that's what I had. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, mapex. I actually all my churches have mapex. We were just a mapex just maybe.
Chris Estes:Yeah, that's what we like solid drums, man. Um, it says you're progressing the keyboards. What was some of the musical influence there? Like who, who just stood out to you when you really press into keys?
Michael Riley:Kevin Powell. Yeah, he's Doobie Powell's brother. I started watching Kevin Powell and then I also started watching cats that I can't really even name right now, they were just on YouTube. There's a channel called Hear and Play.
Chris Estes:Hear and Play or something like that.
Michael Riley:I used to watch him because he broke down gospel changes. Stuff I wanted to learn, he broke it down.
Chris Estes:Yeah.
Michael Riley:So yeah. And then after that I was watching Paris Bowens, who played for Israel. You know, paris, he was a big. He was big in ties, yeah, so he was a huge inspiration to me. Yeah, ties, yeah, so he was a huge inspiration to me. Yeah, that's when he passed, you know that that hurt a little bit.
Chris Estes:Yeah, that's sad. Yeah, yeah, that's funny how all those guys, man, they just they, they played around and they just always were jumping on the next thing, you know, whatever, whatever that was. Um, when did you start md? And like, when did you start music directing?
Michael Riley:I started music directing when I was my first job as MD was I was 16. Wow, yeah, and I was gracious enough to have a great music worship director who knew my age. She believed in me, she taught me things that really made me a great MD. Like hey, on time, like just little things that I don't understand. Coming from the African-American church, you kind of just walk in before service and you play. There's no rehearsal. Yeah, when I got my first job well, actually I can't even I gotta go back before that because I was 14 I was playing at a church called Grace Baptist where they let me MD, but really my official title was keyboard player there. Yeah, when I got my first official title as MD, I was 16. Yeah, I was 16.
Chris Estes:That's crazy, man. So you're MDing with cats that are probably a lot older than you, Way older than me, and you just settled in there.
Michael Riley:Yeah, but they respected me though, because they knew you had chops. Yeah, because I could play all the instruments. If I was telling something, I could show you how to play it as well, yeah.
Chris Estes:Dude I had. So you're um. So, michael, I should have said this up earlier. I just love diving right into the stories. Um, michael, you play with, uh, ryan Horton. Um, that's not all you do, but if you want to see some of that, which is a very unique aspect, you guys are outside the walls of the church, on the streets, just you and him flowing and going um, doing, yeah, what I would consider it's a. It's a interest, interesting mix of spontaneous, spirit-led um audience of one or two or passerbys or none, and just you two locking in man.
Chris Estes:In the most uncommon place, the most not set up or produced place either.
Michael Riley:Not at all.
Chris Estes:And it's a really interesting aspect because when you talk about those guys respected you because you could play anything, but also you have a really great sense of musical space, flow, landscape, and to do that inside a produced environment like that and outside in the wild it's crazy man, it is, it truly is, and I had a chance. What made me think about that when I asked you the MD question was I had a chance to listen to your MD last.
Michael Riley:Sunday Shout out to City.
Chris Estes:Church in Chicago Was fun because I was helping the lyrics. The lyric team follow Ryan, who can go all over the place and you lock in with them easy. But your music directing in that environment with Ryan is like really it's not just your traditional like hey guys, we're going to jump here. It's like you. You call out all kinds of stuff.
Michael Riley:Yeah, I have to because ryan man, ryan is so spontaneous, like, yeah, he'll give you a list, you'll have that. You just don't know how he's gonna go into it. And a lot of times when we go places we don't have a house, we're just using this, the house. Band from the church yeah, we never played with these guys before. They're're doing one sound check and we're doing a service. You just got to be quick on your feet.
Chris Estes:You are quick. It's interesting for listeners that don't know that world really well. The MDs playing, obviously with keys. You're using two hands already. You're carrying a lot. You're watching You're locking in with the leaders and the vocalists and the band and carrying a lot. You're watching You're locking in with the leaders and the vocalists and the band and carrying a song and for you, in that environment, what I was hearing was not only you doing that, but you're also trying to, because you're not just calling out chords. Usually those guys are like hey, go back to the bridge, go to the one, stay on the four, whatever the call is, but you're actually band directing energy and bringing the cymbals.
Chris Estes:You were calling drum, calls chord changes. It was crazy man, yeah, because Ryan is real big on moments.
Michael Riley:He don't like when you miss him. So in those moments where he's not singing, you got to create a melody on the spot. You got to move the room. But, honestly, when you're following Christ, where he's not singing, you got to create a melody on the spot. You got to. You know, you got to move the room, you know and. But honestly, when you're following Christ, he's following Christ and I'm following him, so we're in one. Most of the time, we don't miss.
Chris Estes:You don't miss that's the amazing thing to me is like you because he's not talking to you and he's giving you some hand don't make any sense.
Michael Riley:I love you man, I love you bro. They don't make any sense for him but they have passion yeah, I know what he means.
Chris Estes:Yeah, it's been two years, two, three years so I say all that for the listeners to kind of get paint. I can paint a little bit more of a picture, but I want to back up, having experienced that, like when you first stepped into md, were you, um, at that early age man, were you? Were you sensing like, what was that like? How did you step into that? Was it like with confidence? Or were you just like, okay, this is how you do it?
Michael Riley:Man, honestly, I always walked in that Even before the official title, like I always was telling guys.
Chris Estes:Just thinking about what's going on.
Michael Riley:Yeah, I was always thinking about it, and what was new to me, honestly, was really calling the numbers.
Michael Riley:Because at the time I was new to the number system, I knew what I wanted to hear and I learned the number system really fast, yeah. So once I learned that I was already telling guys that yo play this groove, I just had to get. What I did was listen to LJ at Elevation, because they was putting out those tutorials. I started listening to him and I started listening to there's another cat named Kyrie who plays for me. He just did the Beyonce tour Just watching those guys navigate how they do things. So I wanted to watch it in a professional setting. So I watched those guys and I realized, okay, build all those different things that they were calling.
Michael Riley:So just say the thing that you want to happen yeah and then if you're working with guys that are decent enough, it's gonna happen. Yeah, and I've always been kind of a leader in those sense. Um, in that sense so it was. It came naturally, but it did. I fumbled a lot at that age, you know, but they allowed me to yeah they allowed me to grow on their platform, which I appreciate Truth Church, you know and Pastor Simone.
Chris Estes:God bless the church man. I think that's. They do that. Yeah, they allow me to grow into it. Yeah, some of the artists kind of come up in that, like we're talking about Corey Henry and Beyonce, like all these people. They have that church experience in the beginning? A lot of them do. When did you start? So you had that sense? Do you remember when you started Like listening to music as an active, like I'm picking a part? What's happening Was that early.
Michael Riley:It was when I started getting calls To do conferences, yeah, and I realized, oh, these people want to hear parts. They don't want to just like, there's a way you can play a song and get around it, you know, but they want to hear the song. So I think when I started doing conferences with, uh, my first conference was with a guy named gene dot. He was a md in port st lucie, florida, and um, from there I kind of started listening to music for parts, because I started out playing ox at the conferences yeah okay, so I was playing ox at the, so ox is all the all the flary stuff yeah
Michael Riley:so you only get one chance to play those lines, uh-huh. So I think from there I started listening to music differently, um, but I always listen to music to pinpoint like I wanted to hear everything. I don't listen to music a lot in speakers. I put headphones on so I really want to hear all the parts, um. But yeah, I've been doing that for a long time, honestly, when I think about it, but when I started, having to play them and like stems and all that stuff wasn't really a thing.
Chris Estes:Now it's a little bit easier to get by, yeah you just fire Ableton and Ableton does your job and your pastor has no clue. That is true, very true. So you talked a little bit about uh, you know you're in the church. You grew up around gospel music and exposure to that did you also. So you had some influence from jaco and some of the jazz stuff your dad was listening to. Was there other genres of mainstream music that you were listening to or you heard that had some, some like peak into your life?
Michael Riley:because I never told you this. I was a part of a rock band in junior high school called scaburbia. Come on, we did paramore yeah we did eddie van halen, stuff that's what we're talking about.
Chris Estes:Eddie van halen yesterday yes, yeah, we were, yeah, we were. I was wondering. I was like, okay, how does this kid know?
Michael Riley:yeah, yeah so yeah, like we was doing, headie Slash all those guys. So yeah, I was a part of a rock band. We did Foo Fighters.
Chris Estes:Foo.
Michael Riley:Fighters was our favorite. I can't remember how many songs we did. That's funny. Yeah, I went through a stage and my mom I love my mom she rebuked me every step of that stage Rebellious stage bro she did not like the rock stage at all I went to you keep. Were you keying or I was playing guitar guitar yeah, yeah, I only played power chords, that was not your rock band. That's what you do, so I played power chords, and I did drop d for the foo fighters though oh, yeah, so yeah, yeah, what guitar were you playing?
Michael Riley:I had a. Uh, it's a sx. We probably don't even know what this is, but there's a company called sx guitars and they make cheap guitars, yeah, so my grandma got me one with a floyd rose system on it I think it was like it was like 200, 300 dollars. Yeah, um, it had the lock the locking.
Chris Estes:Yeah, it was really get down with that exactly.
Michael Riley:So yeah, it was a red guitar. I actually left it in new york, never seen it again. I left that guitar in new york right, you know it's funny.
Chris Estes:Uh, even you, even now and then like a pedal board, can make a cheap guitar sound amazing. So did you put money into your pedal board? Did you start having that Honestly?
Michael Riley:I'm going to be honest. I had a Line 6 amp.
Chris Estes:I had no pedal board.
Michael Riley:So I had to switch my presets from the amp. I didn't have no pedal board at the time.
Chris Estes:Dude, that is rock. My grandma said you're gonna get the guitar only yeah that's all I got that's funny. Where were you guys playing just like garage dude we?
Michael Riley:just did. Our school would let us play in the lunchroom every now and then we did the talent show. That was it and then all of our time was just spent in in this guy's basement, alejandro, that's his name we still fight. He was still friends this day and, uh, we did in his basement. We practiced every week or whatever. I rode my bike with the amp on one handlebar and the guitar on the other, that's what music does to you.
Michael Riley:Yeah, when you fall in love with music, you do stuff like that, yeah yeah, it was crazy when I think about it now, but yeah, I did it, it was fun that is fun, dude, I love that.
Chris Estes:Yeah, yeah, talent shows, man, that's where I cut my teeth with first bands, like in little ragtag, you know, groupings with the. I think our first one we did was back when motley crew came out and too fast for love before shot of the devil. It was like they had too fast for love which was a little more. It wasn't as glam rock, it was a little more like grungy not really grunge wasn't a thing. Then it was more like rock rock but it was. Yeah, we had, we had the band doing that drummer that's crazy.
Chris Estes:Um. So, man, I love that part of your story. So how did you come out of the rock band? Did you just like?
Michael Riley:it was a, it was just a stage, just a stage.
Chris Estes:You're like I'm gonna be rebellious for a minute, the thing is is I always loved.
Michael Riley:I used to play this game called Guitar Hero, yeah, but it came out and I always loved the solo, all the riffs, yeah yeah, I just picked up guitar After a while. I was just picking up everything that I could put my hands on at that point and I fell in love. That rock music, yeah.
Chris Estes:Yeah, I still love Paramore. Yeah, To this day, I still love Paramore man, they stand up, they're in the canon of rock for sure. Yeah, what so along the way? Now I mean you're, you know you're gosh, you're 20 years into your music journey.
Michael Riley:That's crazy to say because you're still young, bro.
Chris Estes:It is really crazy to see Along the way further, in like what songs have really influenced you over the last five to ten years.
Michael Riley:Man, that is a hard question. Influence, how, though, what do you mean?
Chris Estes:I mean, you're a multi-instrumentalist, you produce, you do artist stuff too, so you probably have layers of it. You can break it up and say, man, this artist or these guys have recently influenced my key work. You're not really drumming now anymore.
Michael Riley:Yeah, I'm not really playing drums like that. I just do studio stuff. But honestly, red Hands, that band is amazing. Red Hands is again the guy, kyrie, that you spoke about earlier. He made a band called Red Hands. They influence a lot of my creative. They just tap into that creative place. There's a new band in the last couple months that just came out. His name is Jay Anderson. He made an album and that album has been on repeat for a minute. What style is it? It's literally just like I don't know. It's instrumental, it's like jazz. It's got a little bit of gospel in it. It's just, it's dope. It's a combination Laney's old crew that they used to roll with and they just made a band and just made an album and it's crazy.
Chris Estes:What was that? What were you listening to in the car on the way to that conference with that guy he played. It was an instrumental. That was them. That was okay. That's what I'm saying, that's what. Yeah, that was. That was tight dude.
Michael Riley:Yeah, bro, they make really good stuff. Um, yeah, I mean I still listen to Corey Henry, like whatever he comes out with Funk Apostles, whatever yeah, I listen to him faithfully. Um, but honestly, I spend most my time listening to easy worship music because it just kind of yeah, well, you know, I listen to leonard ray's prayer music and stuff like that yeah um, a lot of times I'm inspired just by leonard a lot just to go in my room and practice presence.
Michael Riley:Now, yeah, I think all the the fancy stuff like that I used to want to know. I kind of don't care for as much anymore. I want to be simple and I want to be solid. I just want to be tight.
Chris Estes:Yeah, there's a power in that knowing when and what to place in those moments. Man, you kind of touched on this a little bit already O Come to the Altar having a massive impact on you. So I have two questions. It'll kind of split this way we can talk about O Come to the Altar and how you saw the power of that song having a powerful impact on you, which is the name of the podcast, the Power of Songs. So we get into that. But then also, you have been on the other side, which I love. This question for guys like you you have seen the power of song and performance and stuff you've been involved in. So I want to hear those two questions like how did O Come the Altar impact you? And then, can you remember any other moments where you've been involved that you've seen?
Michael Riley:that power. So I'll start with the first one. Oh, come to the altar. Um, man, I heard that song and I got I was what was. I was 20 years old at the time, so this is not that long ago. Yeah, um, I've always been in the church, like we we spoke about, but, man, I don't think I was living 100 you know, and I listened to that song, man, and, um, what really happened was I had to sing it.
Michael Riley:There's a live stream of me having to sing this at a church I was at yeah and the the power of god hit me while I was singing.
Chris Estes:I got baptized shortly after that wow, yeah, I got baptized on my 21st birthday.
Michael Riley:Well, well, close to my 21st birthday. And man, that song I don't know, it was just the lyrics to it are you hurting and broken with?
Michael Riley:yeah overwhelmed by the weight of your sin. Jesus is calling. All that stuff was just like it was eating me, bro. It was eating me and I knew I had to come to the like. I had to go back, you know, because I knew I knew god, I knew God, I knew of God. But I feel like I knew him through, like my mom and my dad's lens and I never really got to know him for myself at the time. And that song, man, I ever played to this day I still play that song- that's a great song, man.
Chris Estes:It's just something. I know a couple of the radio promoters that worked that song and it took over a year for that song to get traction at radio and they never gave up on it. So in year two it started to. But by that point you know, album cycles go like Elevation, worship and Bethel, and all these guys are doing albums every 12 to 18 months typically, typically every 12 months.
Chris Estes:So I think they were already on the second album and that song was starting, but I love how god just got plans for songs like that sometimes man and I can't even remember where I was or what I was doing when I heard it, but I knew it.
Michael Riley:It it just stayed on replay after I heard it yeah because that song, really it just, I don't know man, it spoke to me different, yeah, and yeah, I got baptized shortly after listening to it.
Chris Estes:It's an emotional lyric, and emotional in the way that it can encourage and not only convict but draw you in. Draw you in in a way where you turn away from some stuff and the music, the soundscape of the music.
Michael Riley:I think, talks into that really. Well, it was right, it didn't push too hard hard, it didn't do too much, it was just. I feel like that song was for me, man, like once I heard it I was like, yeah, and it's a timeless song man, because I think everybody salvation's not a one time experience man.
Chris Estes:So, like you know, I think Christ called us to pick up our cross daily. So we have to put some things down and turn away from some things and actually kill some things in our life to fully be present with Him. And I like songs like that that can soundtrack it.
Michael Riley:And always bring you back there Special.
Chris Estes:Man, you've been a part of some special moments and you've seen the power in opportunities where you performed and things. Can you think of some stories or a story that's top of mind, that you said, man, the power of the song and the presence really hit.
Michael Riley:I could think of this youth camp I did a couple years back and the youth don't really listen to hymns anymore. Yeah, but I remember being on Keys and we were in. It was like a how do you say this? The youth site was like where you know where they have cabins and all this different stuff.
Chris Estes:Yeah, I can't tell you.
Michael Riley:And then the church is in the middle and you got to go to church. So I remember it was a more African-American type youth camp and we were singing some song and then it went to a flow moment where it's kind of just me playing and I'm beginning to play that song. I need thee, oh, I need thee. Every hour I need thee and I didn't realize how powerful that song was to a lot of the kids in there and these are kids my age.
Michael Riley:So, I think they grew up listening to that song and I think a lot of those kids just started lifting their hands in that moment and cause she started singing the lyrics, the worship leader and it just spoke to a lot of those kids and I could see kind of transformation in that moment.
Chris Estes:Yeah, yeah. I love how songs can really set the tone in a room, the cause they can shift the atmospheres. Man, yeah, quickly. You see it on the street with Ryan all the time right.
Michael Riley:Yeah, all the time. Yeah, All the time. Yeah, even like a lot of the times this might be off, but, like during prayer, I don't play songs because of how powerful they are. I know that sounds crazy, but like I had a preacher say, tell me, hey, don't play a song while I'm praying, because they're gonna want to sing the song like yeah, just play something, don't even play a song, I'm like oh wow, I didn't even.
Michael Riley:I never thought about it that way either, like how it can distract sometimes too yeah yeah, so yeah, you gotta be so careful in those moments like what you're playing and how you're navigating yeah, yeah, um man, how do you?
Chris Estes:so this is, this is a great question for you, because you work with songs in a lot of different ways. But how do you, when a song comes into your atmosphere, like whether you're learning it, performing it, but how do you? How do you work with songs now, like you know, from creation to performance to to how do you handle?
Michael Riley:that well, when I get asked like well, I get sent a set list yeah most of the time I try to talk to the worship leader and ask them like, like, what type of church? Is this and then a lot of times like okay, so say we do praise. The average 50 year old is not going to want to sing that everything. So, we take that out.
Chris Estes:You know what I'm saying.
Michael Riley:So my preparation is kind of like making the song fit the church. Yeah, you know like we can play the song, no problem, but let's make it fit like the church. You know, I'm not going to do elevation rhythm at a 50-year-old church or anything like that. So I think just making the songs fit, making them feel right for the house, because every song is not for every house and even if you want it on your set list, some churches don't respond to some of these songs. It's not for every house. But if you can make it for your house, that's typically what I try to do.
Chris Estes:Yeah, yeah, yeah, steward the house in the moments.
Michael Riley:Yeah, yeah.
Chris Estes:What's the most as an md, because I've never had an md on the show. Um, what's, what's some of your like? What are some crazy md stories? Y'all got them, I know y'all got them. I can't really. I want to say all right I'm not gonna.
Michael Riley:I'm gonna say what I was saying the church, yeah don't say the church.
Chris Estes:We'll leave it anonymous but well, man.
Michael Riley:So you know, me and ryan were traveling to a church and um, we got soundcheck. We got through soundcheck. It was decent. It wasn't the best, the drummer was not the best. Um, we go out to do the first song. Um, by two to three seconds into the song he is extremely off click. Oh, I'm talking about, like they say, if you can hear the click, you're off of it. Yeah, you need to be so locked in, we don't hear it.
Chris Estes:Yeah, that's a good point, you know what I'm saying.
Michael Riley:I heard the click and he was off. This is the first song in to the biggest night of their conference, Whoa. So thank God for Ableton and being able to get back on, but that was a rough moment. Another moment I had was I was playing for another artist. I was playing at a Disney situation. We did a sound check. I heard everything. Once we got on stage, my monitor mix in my ears was horrible. I couldn't hear anything the whole show. It was really bad. In another situation I was at a conference and I was playing Jyra. The intro on click, my pack dies.
Chris Estes:Oh gosh, and.
Michael Riley:Jyra's just piano.
Chris Estes:Yeah.
Michael Riley:So my homie comes up behind me and taps me for the click, like yeah, giving me the click on me a guitar player. So I thank god for him wow yeah, man, there's so many stories, honestly, on md nightmares, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But when you travel, enough, yeah, with the band. With bands you don't know, what you try to do is try to accommodate for the people playing around you If you know they're not as good. Don't do everything you know. Be simple so you can sound good. Yeah.
Chris Estes:Yeah, and there's a beauty in simplicity. When you're in the room, you can always add too. It's hard when you start with a lot to take, take from.
Michael Riley:Exactly that's the harder part. That's like gospel musicians starting to play ccm. It's hard for them. Yeah, it's really hard, just because there's space that mean you have to fill it exactly oh man, all right.
Chris Estes:Um last question uh, because you have an early flight oh man, I'm chilling but we're chilling and but I could talk about this stuff all night long. Um, what are some of the favorite songs you've worked on?
Michael Riley:the favorite, one of the favorite songs I worked on. Yeah, um, right, actually, right now I'm working on a record for my friend uh, his name is charles weems junior and this has been one of my favorite records to work on because I'm producing it nice and I'm able to like, just do what I want to do with the production yeah so it's been really fun.
Michael Riley:he's not a mainstream artist at all, but I believe he will be um, but this record has been really fun. It's different, it's it's just what style is it? It's CCM, but it's like Like a pop. It's like pop like Joe yeah okay, yeah, it's like that and then, honestly, man working on, like the Justin Bieber record that I recorded bass on, that was really fun.
Chris Estes:I like how you naturally just shit-throwed it out there. No, Michael, you are so like, you're such a talent, bro, and you've done so much, and you're only 26 years old. But for someone to say, like you know, you worked on a Grammy-nominated record like that, it's crazy, bro.
Michael Riley:Yeah, I wish it got, I wish it won. Yeah, one year.
Chris Estes:A lot of people get nominations. Man, Only a few win, though I know Well, I shouldn't say a lot of people, Actually a lot of people don't get nominations.
Michael Riley:I do want to shout out my brother, Tony Hemmings man. He put me on a lot of records, A lot of stuff. I think him working with me was me learning how to become a studio musician.
Chris Estes:Yeah, Because from the top it's a totally different thing From the top.
Michael Riley:He was like, hey, bro, it's a different thing right From the top, yes, it's a totally different thing From the top. He was like, hey, bro, space, I don't need all that Block chords. He taught me a lot. So now, when he calls me, it's not him sending back three mistakes, or me sending back all these takes. Now, it's one take and he enjoys it. But at first I was sending five, six takes. He's like bro, this is not it. Yeah, yeah, Love that guy.
Chris Estes:That's how you learn, though, man. So, with Bieber's thing, how did you approach that? Did you have a lot of creative landscape to play in, or it was like, hey, just do this one thing, no?
Michael Riley:it was do this one thing. I was in the grocery store. Tony called me and said I need bass right now. Likein bieber is waiting for bass. We because we had, they had to change something. His wife, justin bieber's wife, said this song sounds too too much like another song, so they needed another melody like a bass line yeah, it's changing and you had to come up with it.
Chris Estes:Yeah, wow. So how do you approach that? Like, how, what was your? I mean no pressure.
Michael Riley:It's just Justin Bieber. I mean, I just did what I know to do.
Chris Estes:Do you sit with a song like you, listen to it a few times and get like I didn't have time?
Michael Riley:They called me. I was in the grocery store. I dropped everything. I was with my wife.
Chris Estes:Yeah.
Michael Riley:And he was like I need this done in like 45 minutes, like I really need this quick, wow I minutes, like I really need this quick, wow, um. I sent the first take and they were like nah, nah, that's not it. Yeah, like dang, let me send one more, like try something different, um. And then that was the take yeah that was the take it was. I didn't have a lot of time to even be like let me listen to this. Let me let me sip the song.
Michael Riley:It wasn't that's pretty good, though, man, for something that high of a level, with a whole rewrite to hit it in two takes yeah I had to yeah, and I, if I'm being honest, I did not think I thought it was gonna call somebody else yeah, yeah, I thought that's it. I'm not gonna get that call yeah, but you know, I got the, got the call, got the text, like yo, what's your full name, what's your. I was like oh there, it is now we, now we in baby oh man, yeah, what a great story man that's how music works.
Chris Estes:Dude, there's a lot of a lot of the networking and a lot of the connections. I'm learning.
Michael Riley:It's really not even about how good you are it's about who you know and who you are.
Chris Estes:Yeah, I mean, yeah, you have to bring talent to the table, but so you know who you are. Yeah, how you hang out with people when no one wants to hang out with a weirdo, and you know work with somebody's challenge. Yeah, that's true, that'll be a good hang. Yeah, you gotta be a good hang, um, which you know you should be, because we're all you know. We're playing music. We're not working at music like our provocation is music, but it's like you get to play in the sandbox. Um, what other songs have you had that you feel like you know? There were just like great fun experiences um.
Michael Riley:I worked on a christmas song for an artist called jack ross yeah um, and that was a lot of fun. Like, honestly, that was a lot of fun. That was first time I did christmas music yeah and if you know anything about gospel musicians, you know they're not really good at christmas music I didn't know that you ever heard like a gospel musician play at the. The christmas plays, that they the church and don't none of this stuff be right?
Chris Estes:So the only thing I would say, which I guess, yeah, to play that could happen. Israel Houghton's Christmas records, I think, are always good.
Michael Riley:He's only done two. The thing is, I think, if you're able to arrange it yourself, cool, but if you have to, play the original arrangement.
Michael Riley:A lot of us, a lot of us, let me say, not say them us fumble those records because we're just going off a kind of like we know how to play so we can. The chords don't be right, of course, I'll never be right, but that was a lot of fun, um to do, yeah, and I also did like um, some kids bob stuff, oh yeah. So remaking, remaking a record for the yeah, yeah for kids.
Chris Estes:Were you doing bass work on that or what were you doing? I did everything on that, yeah yeah, I did everything on that one yeah, kids, bop man, it's still around, dude, they're still knocking those things out. Yeah, yeah. I did the not more than ever, because they have to really edit that stuff down for the kids. Yeah, that's the songs that were given.
Michael Riley:I was like it's like a lot of it's a lot of extras. I'm like, how are you going to make this PG? Because this song is not PG at all. But yeah, that that was fun and, honestly, man, I'm looking forward to working on more records. Like you know, I mean you wrote Today with Ryan yeah, first C.
Chris Estes:Well, not C-CM, but first Nashville, that was my first Nashville Right ever, dude. This is a landmark day and your first time On my podcast, exactly.
Michael Riley:I'm happy you're back Once you win that.
Chris Estes:Grammy, we're gonna bring you back. Amen, I'll take it. I'll take it. Yeah, that was fun today, huh.
Michael Riley:Yeah, it was a lot of fun, like just being in the room With those type of guys and looking at the plaques Like dang these guys shout out to chris davenport smith dude like ryan and michael, heavy hitters man.
Chris Estes:Yeah, super heavy hitters, but they're so humble man. I think that's the fun part about it. Um, all right, for real. Last question is there? Uh, this is a good, this is a great question for you because you, you're young, you've done a lot in the music space, started super young. What would you to the kid that's 12, 13, 15, maybe coming out of his punk rock band, getting back into whatever, but wants to do music, what advice, encouragement would you give?
Michael Riley:I would say stay focused and stay true to yourself. Um, and don't worry about the people who are supporting you like that's gonna come yeah a lot of the times we worry about people like posting a video and they're not getting any likes. Like I was that kid like dang why my video only got 40 likes and this guy got a thousand likes. Like I would think about stuff like that, I would just not worry about that.
Michael Riley:Create for you and post it, yeah, um, and just be confident what the lord Create for you and post it, yeah, and just be confident in what the Lord has given you. Don't be jealous of anybody else's talent because you don't know what came with it. Yeah, yeah, honestly, man, I would just say stay true to yourself, don't worry, just keep your eyes on what you want. Like, don't look left or right, because that's when we get discouraged, when we start looking at other people's lives and how they got on this record and to this day. That's even from my own heart. Like, don't look at all this. Like, just focus on what the lord has for you yeah, yeah that's the best.
Chris Estes:I was working for peter well in the water until he started looking around and he started sinking and it started sinking that's literally biblical, like just keep your eyes, you know yeah that's what I would say, and you've lived that man. You've got a lot of musical years in your young biological age, which is unusual. I feel 40, bro, you don't look 40. Man, thanks for being on the podcast.
Michael Riley:Chris, thank you for having me man this has been great.
Chris Estes:Guys, check out his work. You have your own artist stuff out, right. You said you released some stuff. No, no.
Michael Riley:I just got Instagram stuff.
Chris Estes:Okay, I need it.
Michael Riley:You're speaking it.
Chris Estes:I know I'm speaking a lot of stuff of your life in these last few years Lately. Michael Riley 2.0. 2.0, yeah, Yep, that's his Instagram. You can always see him on Ryan Horton's page. He's been running with him for years and man recording's coming up with Ryan, so he'll be on that, I'll be on that. And producing a few things, but, dude, it's been great having you on the podcast.
Michael Riley:bro, Chris, thank you for having me. Seriously, it's been great.
Chris Estes:You got the best. Also, we don't do a video podcast, but I just got to give a shout out to my favorite, Bass Pro hat.
Michael Riley:I didn't even know it existed until you have it. I have worn it every trip.
Chris Estes:It is so good I love. If you know me, I'm usually in black attire of some sort or all sort, and that's the black Bass Pro hat with white. Yeah, it's simple Dope Six bucks.
Michael Riley:Bass Pro. Haven't seen it before.
Chris Estes:All right, dope, six bucks Bass Pro. Haven't seen it before. Alright man, peace out Thanks.